Author Topic: The Dictionary Thread  (Read 42919 times)

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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2012, 08:37:51 am »
Cool then! Keep up that great work. Can I help in any way at all?
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ingsve

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2012, 09:00:28 am »
Cool then! Keep up that great work. Can I help in any way at all?

Help is always welcome. There are always ways to update and enhance the wiki for example, to explain things better, give more examples, expand the tutorials, make the vocabulary more complete etc. Another thing that has been asked for are various excersises to use when learning.
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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2012, 09:16:27 am »
I could help with those. The exercises wouldn't be for the wiki, right?
And how could I do so? How could I get started?
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ingsve

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2012, 09:20:04 am »
I could help with those. The exercises wouldn't be for the wiki, right?

Well, they're for anywhere that's suitable I guess. I messed around a little on a quiz site at one point but it doesn't have to be that advanced. Qvaak made a word order test that is on the wiki. http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Test_Your_Skills
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Hrakkar

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2012, 01:25:45 pm »
Have anybody included the words mentioned by David in the Reddict AMA or something like that?

Not yet. We try and add all new words we find to the vocabulary in the wiki first and Qvaak has added the AMA words there. Then Hrakkar updates the downloadable dictionary when he gets time for it.

I usually do the dictionary updates on Sunday evenings, but they sometimes get done when there are things to update and I have time. I do see the AMA words in the wiki, and I want to get those in the dictionary soon.

I have also just finished an addendum for the dictionary that contains the grammar information that is more tabular in nature, and needs to be memorized. I'll be submiting that to a couple of people for review before I let Lajaki make to changes to the dictionary structure, to include it.
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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2012, 02:41:14 pm »
Hey, I was thinking about something... wouldn't it be cool to add the definition of each word to the Dothraki wiki? I mean a whole article for each word where we could include the complete derivational paradigm, the forms (i.e. full declension, full conjugation, etc) and also notes maybe about usage or about something mentioned by David?
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ingsve

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2012, 03:34:54 pm »
Hey, I was thinking about something... wouldn't it be cool to add the definition of each word to the Dothraki wiki? I mean a whole article for each word where we could include the complete derivational paradigm, the forms (i.e. full declension, full conjugation, etc) and also notes maybe about usage or about something mentioned by David?

Wouldn't that be really cluttered and repetitive for no good reason?

What we are discussing is changing the vocabulary to be more similar to the way David presents the words in his dictionary where the words are sorted based on the root so that you see the various versions of the same word. See here for an example: http://forum.dothraki.org/language-updates/more-info-ahead-of-next-list-program-new-words/msg1189/#msg1189
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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2012, 04:51:48 pm »
Wouldn't that be really cluttered and repetitive for no good reason?
I don't think so. I think it would be a great learning material for novices. Think of the wiktionary and how it shows the complete inflection for each noun, adjective or verb in langauges such as Latin. I think it's worth trying.

Edit: I offer myself to help with this.

What we are discussing is changing the vocabulary to be more similar to the way David presents the words in his dictionary where the words are sorted based on the root so that you see the various versions of the same word. See here for an example: http://forum.dothraki.org/language-updates/more-info-ahead-of-next-list-program-new-words/msg1189/#msg1189
This would also be very cool!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 04:54:44 pm by Niqqo »
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Qvaak

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2012, 08:12:08 pm »
Ho! Bold ideas. As ingsve, I'm also rather sceptical on the benefits and doability of word-per-page style word descriptions. There are very few words we know of enough to say any more than what fits into our vocab page (cf. specific uses section on idioms and phrases page), and declensions in Dothraki are very systematic. If you know the infinite and past singular of the verb, everything else follows; if you know (singular) nominative and accusative of any noun, everything else follows [you don't even need to know animacy, really, as it can be seen from the accusative]. Well, that of course also means that massive amounts of declinations can be computer generated with relatively small effort.

I'd say there's no harm in at least creating a few test studies on words. They should indeed be good tutorial/study material. And I'd love to see some adjective declinations with fully conjugated verb forms of all comparison declinations. That should yield at least ~200 inflections :)

Please, please do come help us with the Wiki. We can be critical, for we want to do good and discourse is a key to that goal, but all the help is appreciated and there certainly is space for you to try things we wouldn't. For more on the current vocab improvement, participate in further discussion here.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 08:14:50 pm by Qvaak »
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Hrakkar

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2012, 10:37:33 pm »
The dictionary is in a state of limbo right now, as the backend is being moved to a different server. Thankfully (as a of a few days ago, anyway), there wasn't that much stuff that needed adding/changing. I am waiting for the powers that be at Learn navi (where the backend has been moved to) to get me access to the backend.

David himself admits that that dictionary shown is out of date. I am not sure that the format he uses is the best format for a general usage dictionary (it certainly is helpful if you are creating new words, as he is!). So, we can discuss major changes to the dictionary format right on this thread.

We should start a new thread concerning the changes suggested as they apply to the wiki. Like the dictionary, there are give-and-take reasons for changes (or lack thereof). I like the idea of a 'encyclopedic dictionary' that lists canon sources and references to articles concerning each word. As far as showing every declension or conjugation of a word in a dictionary or wiki entry, that seems a little much, especially in terms of what Qvaak said. But perhaps common or important inflected forms of a word could e shown.

I am nearly ready with a addendum to the dictionary that contains most of the inflections that can be used on Dotharki words and very brief notes on how to apply them. It is my feeling that you cannot really read Dothraki well until you know these inflections well (and I am still learning. It is better to learn these inflections and apply them as you read or write, rather than have long lists of inflected words.

I will be busy with a trade show for the next week or so, so I will not be posting much anywhere!
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ingsve

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2012, 06:01:34 pm »
Qvaak created an example of how a single page for a stem could look like:

http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Chom

It looks pretty nice but the challenge would be to get time to do it all.
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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2012, 08:33:01 am »
Wow! Really amazing! Great job, Qvaak, you really shocked me with all that display.

Thanks also for your comment and of course I would love to help in any way I can.
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Qvaak

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2012, 09:31:57 pm »
Thanks. I try. Peterson saw the page and deemed it good, so it turns out I got more stuff right than I had any right to, which is nice.
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Hrakkar

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2012, 11:04:10 pm »
Qvaak created an example of how a single page for a stem could look like:

http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Chom

It looks pretty nice but the challenge would be to get time to do it all.

All I can say to this is...wow!!
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Najahho

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Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2012, 08:16:03 am »
Talking about the dothraki wiki and all... I have a question... how did you do it? I mean, it's not a wikia project, how do I have to do to make a wiki? I wanted to make one about a Saga of books in Spanish, but I don't know how.
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