Author Topic: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary  (Read 7696 times)

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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 01:00:24 pm »
I hope everything is working for you, zhey Havazhyol!

Niqqo, I am ready to get you going for Spanish. I need your login name you set up for the dictionary backend, and the ISO 639 code of the Spanish you intend to translate, which I think is ES.

I'm giving some crazy thought to translating the dictionary into Na'vi ;)
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Najahho

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 01:49:10 pm »
Yes I need to talk to you so much. My login is Esploranto and I think the ISO 639 is ES, couldn't find it, but that's how wikipedia uses it, en.wikipedia and es.wikipedia, so I'm guessing that's it.

What should I do now?
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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 06:47:04 pm »
Zhey Niqqo,
    Just wait a day or two for Tuiq to create a custom login for you. Then, you will just log in to that custom page with your username and password, and translate away! I hope you have read the tutorial page I sent you a link to about 10 days ago. If not, it is the thread 'tTanslating Taronyu's Dictionary' under 'learning resources' on the main LearnNavi forums.
    Of course, we can also set up a Skype call to work through this. But not for the next few days. I have a terrible head cold!
    I'll send you your login link as soon as I get it from Tuiq!
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 11:55:51 pm »
Zhey Niqqo,

about the questions I posted the 10th of december, since I had no answers here I asked a friend of mine who read the books in french (pero, gracias de todos modos  :D).

Zhey Hrakkar,

yes, it's working nicely, the interface is pretty easy to use, and since I translated a word copy of the lastest wiki update, I just need to fill the blanks with copy/past ^^ (ctrl+C/ctrl+V keys be blessed).
I just have one question about the short writing of proper nouns. Is there a way to change it in the french dictionnary? (prop.n. in english -> np. or n.prop. in french)
Hope your head warms a little ^^.

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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 02:46:07 am »
50 % filled, halfway done !
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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 12:41:54 pm »
Zhey Havazhyol,
    Tuiq didn't enable the PoS field for you to edit?
    Great on being halfway done!
    I have a good start on the Dothraki to Na'vi dictionary. I'm having a lot of fun with it!
    When you reach about 75 percent, I will start a new master dictionary thread (so I can edit the first post when I need to) and add your dictionaries to the master list of available dictionaries. I think a link can also be added on the website home page.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:45:01 pm by Hrakkar »
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2013, 01:45:11 am »
M'athchomaroon.

The dictionnary has been stuck at 76 % for the past weeks, for this I truly sorry.

Do not think I gave up.

The reason is that my wife just gave birth to my second daughter (and I have a problem with internet at home).

I'll get back to ot as soon as I have internet back, and some good sleep...

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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2013, 01:07:30 pm »
Athdavrazar!!! Congratulations on the new life! That is as good an excuse as any not to write. Don't feel bad. I am stuck at 11 percent on Dothraki-Na'vi because of teo many 'drop what you are doing' priority projects. I am hoping that I might get a week or so of 'downtime' this spring to work on stuff like this, and it looks like it will not happen now.

However, you are far enough along that, you can start a new thread in the 'language updates' section, with links to your dictionaries. I am also planning to start a new master dictionary thread, and will put links in there for the French dictionary as well.

Niqqo is making good progress on the Spanish dictionary as well, so soon, we will have four different dictionaries for Dothraki!
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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 08:52:11 pm »
Well, I think maybe I should report too. I just started working on the Spanish version a couple of days ago and I'm on 73%.

I've been a little busy, but I'm confident I can finish it up by tomorrow or maybe before the end of the week. :)
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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2013, 01:27:21 pm »
Zhey Niqqo, then you can start a thread for your Spanish dictionary, as well!
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2013, 12:59:46 am »
M'athchomaroon !!!

the dictionnary is actually at 99%, now there are still a few words in pending, either due to an lack of english knowledge, or  rejected by blue brain (and I don't understand why...  ??? ). For the record, I had to remove all the french accent à é è ç in order to get the words accepted.

So, first part : the words that I need help with :

rhae mhar        n.         sore-foot    not completly sure of the meaning...         

zhey                 part.     vocative marker   I need help, cause I'm not sure how to explain it correctly in french

ziqwehelat        v.          to retch    not completly sure of the meaning...

zireyeselat       vtr.        to offend, to bug, to jostle     the translation of to bug slips away from my brain...

affesat              vtr.        to make someone itch    not completly sure of the meaning...

tikkheya            ni.          verb, the instigator's half of the act  (Grammatical sense) cf. melikheya       absolutly not a clue about the meaning

melikheya           ni.         the patient's half of the act      (grammatical, not medical meaning) cf. tikkheya       absolutly not a clue about the meaning

sondra               ni-B.      dragon glass    obsidian       not completly sure of the meaning...

Emrakh Hrazef   prop.n.  Horse Gate           once again I need help from someone who read the books in french...

ray (2)                v.aux.    to have     (perfect tense introduction)          I may need help from a french linguist here...

m' (2)                  elided version of {\it me-} a complementizer used to introduce subordinate clauses              I totally need help from a french linguist on this one :P

hethkat               v.           tight; ready, prepared       shouldn't this word be translated in english as to be tight; to be ready, to be prepared ? (c.f. hethke)
_________________________________________________________

Thez word zhor (1) keeps being rejected by blue brain , I still don't understand why.

_________________________________________________________

Some words are not accepted, I suspect it is because the third field is not filled, and does not need to be in french, here they are :

eyeli                    adj.        spotted (e.g. the status of having spots)

eyelilat                 vin.        to be spotted    (e.g. the state or status of having spots)

kimikh                   ni.         date   (fruit of a date palm)

zhorrof                 ni.          fig    (fresh fruit of a fig tree)

e.g. date in english can mean the fruit of the date tree, a meeting with someone -you wish to score :P- or a day. It is translated datte in french, which only mean fruit of the date tree I.E. does not need more specification.

___________________________________________________________________

Thank you !!!!

Fonas chek!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:29:50 am by Havazhyol »
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Qvaak

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2013, 03:32:30 am »
Quote
rhae mhar        n.         sore-foot    not completly sure of the meaning...
That's an iffy phrase from early days of Dothraki. It's hard to tell, what to make of it. It looks idiomatic or something, as it's used in slightly odd way in "khal rhae mhar" - no preposition, no visible case marking. Maybe it's a noun type expression like bigfoot, maybe it's adjectival like in the translation. I'd just drop it off. It's not a word anyway.

Quote
zhey                 part.     vocative marker   I need help, cause I'm not sure how to explain it correctly in french
What I do in these situations is I go to Wikipedia and change the language of the article. That often gives a good enough hunch on how the terminology works in the intented language. Maybe you have tried this already, but the results look promising to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocative_case -> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocatif
English article discusses vocative mainly in the context of cases, but you should be able to extrapolate the general notion of vocative, and it seems the French article does not share this off-the-mark focus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marker_%28linguistics%29 -> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marque_%28grammaire%29
"Marker" is so generic term that it may be almost unusably wague, but it's also very correct. You might speak of particle or even preposition, I think.
Does that help?

Quote
ziqwehelat        v.          to retch    not completly sure of the meaning...
My internet dictionary-verse says of retch
1.    ( intr ) to undergo an involuntary spasm of ineffectual vomiting; heave
2.    to vomit
and that sounds about right as far as my English skills are considered. No idea if both meanings are accurate for ziqwehelat. If you have no word close to to retch, I'd go with to vomit. That may be a miss, but we have to accept that. English translations may already be off the mark and when you translate, you are bound to push some words even more off the mark.

Quote
zireyeselat       vtr.        to offend, to bug, to jostle     the translation of to bug slips away from my brain...
To hassle, to pester?

Quote
affesat              vtr.        to make someone itch    not completly sure of the meaning...
As in "this wool shirt makes me itch". Itchy things make you itch and that's really uncomfortable.

Quote
tikkheya            ni.          verb, the instigator's half of the act  (Grammatical sense) cf. melikheya       absolutly not a clue about the meaning
This takes some remembering, so I might be talking rubbish... I think there should be two separate meanings,
1. verb
2. the instigator's half of the act
The former should be clear, but non-canon, the latter should, if memory serves, be canon, but rather mysterious. It's something similar to cause and effect: if you break a vase with a baseball bat, you hitting the vase is tikkheya ("task part") and the breaking of the vase is the melikheya ("occurence part"). So if you teach children, but they just don't learn, you might say, that tikkheya was there, but melikheya just didn't show up. And someone could argue that there had to be something wrong with the tikkheya, because otherwise melikheya inevitably follows. And you'd respond, that there was nothing wrong with your tikkheya and the children must be broken.

Quote
melikheya           ni.         the patient's half of the act      (grammatical, not medical meaning) cf. tikkheya       absolutly not a clue about the meaning
Whoop. I discussed this already. [edit: Hey, by the way, why doesn't melikheya have geminate? Have we copied to the dictionary wrong? Shouldn't it be melikkheya?]

Quote
sondra               ni-B.      dragon glass    obsidian       not completly sure of the meaning...
"Obsidian" should not be too hard to translate. "Dragon glass" is in-world name for obsidian (they call it "obsidian" too, but "dragon class" is older name denoting to the stone's mystical in-world properties)... so if you want to get "dragon glass" into your translation, you need someone who's read the books in french for this too.

Quote
ray (2)                v.aux.    to have     (perfect tense introduction)          I may need help from a french linguist here...
Ya. This seems harder to get right by a short Wikipedia dive. Perfect/imperfect disctinction seems to be accompli/inaccompli:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_accompli/inaccompli
Dunno. Is that enough?

Quote
m' (2)                  elided version of {\it me-} a complementizer used to introduce subordinate clauses              I totally need help from a french linguist on this one :P
Hahh. Yes. It's funny, as the normal unelided version is a prefix, not a separate word (though the difference is really flimsy), and thus is not featured in the dictionary at all. But it would be terribly unhelpful not to include the elided version, as you can't really tell that it's not a separate word, and as ma is elided the same way as /me-/, setting ground for major confusion. "a complementizer used to introduce subordinate clauses" is not even that good definition. /Me-/ is used to introduce some subordinate clauses, but I'm not too clear on the details. Seems to be introducing noun clauses, specifically. And I think complementizers are by definition used to introduce subordinate clauses, so the the explanation is probably tautological too. But hey, it's probably my writing, and I'm no linguist, so a certain level of clumsiness is to be expected. Just use prefix, if complementizer is a problem word
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_%28grammaire%29#Subordonn.C3.A9e

Quote
hethkat               v.           tight; ready, prepared       shouldn't this word be translated in english as to be tight; to be ready, to be prepared ? (c.f. hethke)
yep, it should.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 05:44:47 am by Qvaak »
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ingsve

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 09:52:00 am »
Quote
rhae mhar        n.         sore-foot    not completly sure of the meaning...
That's an iffy phrase from early days of Dothraki. It's hard to tell, what to make of it. It looks idiomatic or something, as it's used in slightly odd way in "khal rhae mhar" - no preposition, no visible case marking. Maybe it's a noun type expression like bigfoot, maybe it's adjectival like in the translation. I'd just drop it off. It's not a word anyway.

That's actually straight from the book so the reason it seems strange is because it was GRRM who coined it. Since you need someone who read the book in french you can ask them about this word as well.
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 12:52:25 am »
Thank you very much Qvaak and Ingsve.

The translation process is now complete, Dothraki has now a full french translating tool !!!

I'm so glad I did it ! Online soon I hope !!!

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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 04:39:11 am »
Now that this is mostly over I'm starting to think about a francophone version of the wiki, but I'm going to need help from other frenchies on this one...

I also figured out that "la garde de la nuit" had started a "mini-me" french wiki dothraki, with links to our wiki.

Do you think it's thinkable, or does the fact that they started one mightgive birth to a crowd of issues?
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