Author Topic: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary  (Read 7331 times)

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Havazhyol

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French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« on: November 18, 2012, 03:11:32 am »
M'athchomaroon !

Here is the topic to find news, and/or debate about correct translations of Dothraki in French.

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Hrakkar

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 03:01:58 pm »
Zhey Havazhyol, how are you going about building your dictionary. I have gotten sign-up information for you to use the server that currently runs the English dictionary. If that is the direction you want to go, please PM me and I will give you the information. I am also working on expanding the definition types, to give us places to put things like stem forms. In the future, there might be places for examples and canon/blog citations.

In the meantime, I was just made aware of another imitative (again, from the Na'vi community) to build an all-new dictionary system, using LaTeX. This dictionary would not be database driven (although it could easily be so driven in the future) but would be built up entry by entry in LaTeX markup language. Although it would be a lot of work to initially create, it would look better than any WYSIWYG word processor effort, and probably better than what we have now. The big downside is that it is not a 'sharable' project at all (at least at this time). However, I expect some of the really sharp programmers over at LearnNavi to correct this problem in time.
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 04:59:37 am »
Some news about the achievement:

10% of the vocab from the wiki is now translated (been quite busy lately).

There are some english words/definition (two for now) that will need some clarifications so the translation to french is 100% correct (me, nit-picky? noooo).

I will post them when I get more to ask  :P

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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 02:58:37 am »
Ermmmhhh I just  fell on a word in the C section of the vocab, on the wiki. First thing I had in mind when reading it was WTF...

choo [t͡ʃoo]
na. pika

... pika... chooo
 :o :o :o :o

Someone with an explanation?
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ingsve

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 03:25:29 am »
Ermmmhhh I just  fell on a word in the C section of the vocab, on the wiki. First thing I had in mind when reading it was WTF...

choo [t͡ʃoo]
na. pika

... pika... chooo
 :o :o :o :o

Someone with an explanation?

That's just David having some fun. David frequently uses names of his family and friends to mean various things in Dothraki. Other times it's been something that has happened that inspires a translation.

For example when Charlie Sheen had his breakdown where he was fired from Two and a Half Men and was in the news all the time David coined the word shinat (inspired by Sheen) which means to burn out, to fizzle.

When George RR Martin mentioned on his blog that he was disappointed in the ending of the TV show lost David coined the word lost to mean disappointed.

The word kolver which means eagle is coined after Stephen Colbert who prominently features and eagle in the opening to The Colbert Report. 

The word kogmen which means flawless is named after Game of Thrones writer and keeper of the lore Bryan Cogman.

As for the word itself pika is a family of rodents in case you didn't know what the word meant.
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 07:38:11 am »
Thank you for those clarification. It remind me the story of okeo that you already lighten few weeks ago.

Here are some words which need some clarification/confirmation for the english meaning, I copy/past the vocab from the wiki.

athchilar
ni. limit, lay, expanse         (limit : got it ; not the others)

athdarinar
ni. lameness

chilay
adj. lying, supine

chongat
v. to be hard                            (not sure to understand this one on its correct part...  ::) )

davrakh
ni. useful thing, app

dishah
ni. bark                    (dog sound or wood skin???)

drozhat
vtr to slay, to kill (done by inanimate objects, animals, or otherwise unaware)       (not sur to get the unaware thingy)


efesalat
vtr to uproot, to scratch



That's it for now.   Translation 30-35% done.
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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 08:54:53 am »
Me and Ingsve are neither native English speakers/writers either, so giving good English approximations for Dothraki words we often have only inkling about is really hard job. For making good translations, it would help enormously to find the original contexts and get a good grip about the morphology. Neither task is easy. I couldn't myself find even half of the sources we have dug words from.
These are of course the best sources:
http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Season_One_Dothraki_Dialogue
http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Season_Two_Dothraki_Dialogue
...or would be, if we had managed to move all season two dialogue from David's blog to our page.

Quote
athchilar
ni. limit, lay, expanse         (limit : got it ; not the others)
Consider, that the word is a nominalization of chilat, so without the shift or extension in meaning it should mean ~"lying". It's from a line of dialogue:
Ezo athchilar Athasaroon Virzetha hatif kishi ~ Find how far the Red Waste extends before us
So "lay" in the sense it has in the "the lay of the land" and "expanse" in the sense it has in "we're in the middle of a featureless expanse" ... and the three words try to together approximate the meaning we think athchilar has.

Quote
athdarinar
ni. lameness
This should be a straightforward derivation from darin: lame-being, having a limp

Quote
chilay
adj. lying, supine
Well, this is a participle of chilat, so ~"in horizontal state". This is from David's Dorvi Zichome: http://dedalvs.com/relay/previous/lcc4results/1.html
Majin oggo dorvoon, chilay sh'ejakh, ast, "Majin...elzikh yeri 'ai'?" ~ The goat's head, lying on the bank, then said, "So...is that a yes?"

Quote
chongat
v. to be hard                            (not sure to understand this one on its correct part...
Compare to the dynamic version chongolat, and you can make an educated guess, in what sense "to be hard" is. Seems it's pretty much in the sense "rocks are hard, pillows are soft".

Quote
davrakh
ni. useful thing, app
It's simply "useful thing". That other meaning, "app(lication)" is just for the modernized (ie. non-canon) language. We have some words that are nicked from tweets and such, where David has coined some modern extensions.

Quote
dishah
ni. bark                    (dog sound or wood skin???)
I don't know, where this is from, probably from the IRC chats, but on the Dothraki Word Groups page Daenerys is maintaining (http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Dothraki_Word_Groups) it's listed as wood bark, so let's trust her.

Quote
drozhat
vtr to slay, to kill (done by inanimate objects, animals, or otherwise unaware)       (not sur to get the unaware thingy)
madmen, small children, completely by accident...

Quote
efesalat
vtr to uproot, to scratch
"Uproot" is the central meaning, the word is by derivation "un-carrot". Sounds like "to scratch" is rather separated extension, if I get it right. Might be better separated on vocab too:
    efesalat [efesalat]
    vtr. to uproot
    vtr. to scratch
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ingsve

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 11:35:19 am »
dishah is from the swadesh list. I think we might have confirmed in IRC that it means tree bark but from the surrounding in the swadesh it seems like that also confirms it.
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2012, 02:57:02 am »
athchilar      ok

athdarinar   handicap

chilay           yes! I remember this story of the goat proposing...

chongat       ok

davrakh       app as those for smartphone?

dishah          waf

drozhat        ok

efesalat        I separated the two translations

Thank you for all, it helps for my personnal english improvement as well . More to come ^^
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ingsve

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2012, 06:49:44 am »
davrakh       app as those for smartphone?

Yes, someone asked David on Twitter I think what a smartphone app was in Dothraki and that's what David came up with.
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 12:08:35 am »
Here is the second part. Some of those word are not totally unknown from me, but once again, it's better preventing than healing, so.

faqqi
na. corn bunting (a bird)                      Specific species of bird?

ferri
ni. hemp (material)                               I had strange translations for this one... a type of leaf, kind of illegal smoken when
                                                                                                                                                                                  dried... :-X


Halahisir
prop.n. The Arbor                                 Certainly a place in the books, which I didn't saw yet (only read half of the first one...)
                                                                                                                                                                                   :-[

hammi
n. yak                                                   Mooo?

hrazefeser                     
na. herd of wild horses, "traffic"          modern, as in car driving?

jaqqa rhan
n. mercy men                                       as an executionner / fighter sparing his victim?  (man full of mercy, pity)

jerakasar
na. trader's guild, "company"              as "traffic" : company like firm, enterprise? (no, no, not the NCC-1701)

kane
na. lark                                                joke?  (or, to keep on with the word just above : kaaaaaaane  ;D)

koalakhtihan
ni. eye-healer                                      slightly wild and uncivilized ophthalmologist?

kohol
ni. bow                                                the weapon, or the courtesy

lanlekhi
ni. eating spree for a special taste     not a clue for this one...

lanqoyi
ni. killing spree                                   not a clue for this one either...

lirisirazo
ni. bladed writing                               I rarely write with a sharped pen...



And it's done!

47 pages over 84, so 56 % of the vocab is translated... It's going faster than I thought.

Hajas !
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 12:10:36 am by Havazhyol »
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ingsve

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 05:06:46 am »
Here is the second part. Some of those word are not totally unknown from me, but once again, it's better preventing than healing, so.

faqqi
na. corn bunting (a bird)                      Specific species of bird?

Yes, I think so. David at some point look up a bunch of animals that were like to live on a place like the Dothraki sea so I'm guessing this is where that is from. Otherwise it's a bit of a random word for him to have translated.


ferri
ni. hemp (material)                               I had strange translations for this one... a type of leaf, kind of illegal smoken when
                                                                                                                                                                                 dried... :-X


Yes, hemp is a material made from marijuana plants that are low in THC. It's said to be one of the earliest domesticated plants.



Halahisir
prop.n. The Arbor                                 Certainly a place in the books, which I didn't saw yet (only read half of the first one...)
                                                                                                                                                                                   :-[
Yes, it's the island located off the southwest corner of Westeros.

hammi
n. yak                                                   Mooo?
Yes, it refers to the animal.


hrazefeser                     
na. herd of wild horses, "traffic"          modern, as in car driving?
Yes, the "traffic" part is non-canon and refers to modern traffic.


jaqqa rhan
n. mercy men                                       as an executionner / fighter sparing his victim?  (man full of mercy, pity)
This is a word coined by GRRM in the books. They are people in the Khalasar whose job it is to kill off people that have been struck down by the Khalasar in order to relieve their suffering.


jerakasar
na. trader's guild, "company"              as "traffic" : company like firm, enterprise? (no, no, not the NCC-1701)
Yes, "company" is also a modern translation and should also be seen as non-canon.


kane
na. lark                                                joke?  (or, to keep on with the word just above : kaaaaaaane  ;D)
No, a lark is a bird.


koalakhtihan
ni. eye-healer                                      slightly wild and uncivilized ophthalmologist?
This is also a modern translation. Forum member Daenerys was going to an ophthamologist so she asked David in an IRC chat how that would be translated in Dothraki.


kohol
ni. bow                                                the weapon, or the courtesy
Yes, the weapon.

lanlekhi
ni. eating spree for a special taste     not a clue for this one...

This is part of a group of words that David created as compounds with the word lan "run". A spree is when you do something in a fast succession so an eating spree is simply eating something really fast because you like it's taste.

lanqoyi
ni. killing spree                                   not a clue for this one either...
This is simply going on a rampage and killing lots of people in fast succession.

lirisirazo
ni. bladed writing                               I rarely write with a sharped pen...

This is a word to describe the writing David has in the header on his blog. http://www.dothraki.com/

"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 04:50:00 am »
J'aurai besoin d'aide de francophones sur ce coup, en tous cas de personnes qui ont lu l'oeuvre en français :

- Pour l'île de The Arbor, au sud ouest de Westeros, tenue par les Redwyne, le nom français bien la Treille?

- Quant à jaqqa rhan, le mot miséricordieux convient-il, ou est-ce que GRRM leur a-t-il donné un nom particulier?

- The black salt sea a-t-elle une traduction particulière, ou est-ce qu'une traduction littérale suffit?

Merci
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 05:40:08 am by Havazhyol »
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Havazhyol

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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 05:31:02 am »
First post of 2013 !!!  8)

Anyway, the translation of the dictionnary is almost ended (it's been tough feasts, in the past weeks), and it's transposition is 20% done.

I still have some words/definition that tickles, I'll post them in a few days, when I get less busy.

Hajas!
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Re: French translation of the Dothraki dictionnary
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 12:01:02 pm »
I've noticed nobody helped you here with your questions. So I thought of chiming in... my French's not native at all nor specially strong, but I can understand what you wrote and also could check with the French wiki of Ice and Fire that the names are translated.
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