Author Topic: Help for translation  (Read 8581 times)

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Qvaak

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2012, 06:33:00 am »
Quote
Anha ovvethak shafka dalen zoqwa tashi, Khaleesi anni.
Ovvethat is an exellent word choice, and conjugated right too. Dalen zoqwa thashi (you missed an h on thashi) is a thing that is thrown, and thus should be the direct object, marked with accusative. We don't know the animacy of zoqwa, and it could easily go either way, so add that to the list of things to ask David, if you want to get this comfortably right. It's either dalen zoqwe thashi or dalen zoqwaes thashi. As inanimate, zoqwa would get an epenthetic -e to ease the pronunciation. There are different ways to deal with plurality when there are numerals modifying the argument, but adjective in plural is a surefire choice here, and the noun here will not mark the plurality anyway, so no problems there.

Shafka is a complementary object, but still needs to be tied to the syntax. It's the target, so allative is the case to go with, I'm sure. Not sure about the word order - is it bad form to put complementary argument before the direct object? Perhaps. If you want to be sure, flip shafkaan after the dalen zoqw[e?] thashi.

Khaleesi anni needs to be introduced with vocative particle zhey preceding it.
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2012, 06:49:35 am »
So the sentence would ride the following ways :

Anha ovvethak [shafkaan] dalen zoqwe thashi [shafkaan], Zhey Khaleesi anni  (zoqwa ni)

Or

Anha ovvethak [shafkaan] dalen zoqwaes thashi [shafkaan], Zhey Khaleesi anni  (zoqwa na)

M'kay, one more thing to ask the Khal vezhven...

Thank you Qvaak
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 12:15:45 am by NagromNoruas »
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2012, 12:16:38 am »
Hi all,

I have some ansmers from David :

to close : Ajjonat.

to open : Esajjonalat.

Azzhonathat does not mean to open, it is the opposite of Qemmolat, to cover. (so it would only mean to expose as Ingsve said)

Zoqwa : (copy/past of his answer)

It's an inanimate noun of Class B, hence its paradigm is:

zoqwa
zoqwe
zoqwi
zoqwaan
zoqwoon


About Unicorn, he had a little preference for the descriptive way (Hrazef ma at chivoon), but since both of the answers worked, he leaves the choice to us...

Fonas chek!

(Sorry for double post)
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Najahho

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2012, 11:27:19 am »
Thank you for all your answers.

I now have another question for translation, it is kind of a signature :

I send/throw you a thousand soft kisses, my queen.  -->  Anha ovvethak shafka dalen zoqwa tashi, Khaleesi anni.

Is this correct?

Well I think ovvethak is ok, but shafka should probably be in allative "shafkea" and "zoqwa" in the accusative... which I'm taking is "zoqwe", if this is right then "thash" doesn't need the plural because "kiss" would be inanimate. This is if "kiss" is inanimate, of course, type B.

So to recap: "Anha ovvethak dalen zoqwe thash shafkea, zhey Khaleesi anni."

Although I think you can assume "anni" is redundant here.

Edit: Because of a problem in connection I answered this before all the explanations that precede. I think I guessed most of what was said :D but note that "shafka" has all. "shafkea".
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:30:27 am by Niqqo »
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Qvaak

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 06:25:18 am »
Quote
note that "shafka" has all. "shafkea".
Oh yes.
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 12:01:00 pm »
M'ath !

My newbie level requires some lights for the following sentence.

Asi gizikhveni anni ha lekhaan dothraki ha yeroon ajada loy asshekhi ajjin.

My sweet words from Dothraki language for you will come in a few days now.  aka My Dothraki poetry will be under your eyes soon.

Is this correct?
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Qvaak

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 02:00:46 pm »
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Asi gizikhveni anni ha lekhaan dothraki ha yeroon ajada loy asshekhi ajjin.
My sweet words from Dothraki language for you will come in a few days now.  aka My Dothraki poetry will be under your eyes soon.
Is this correct?
Nope. It's not correct. You write with kiai (to borrow from another language I don't speak). Downside is, it does not get right, exactly. But on the upside, that's the best way to learn.

Ase is inanimate noun, so it does not have (an explicit) plural, but the adjective can (and usually should) still mark it, so ase gizikhveni, I would think.

You got ablative and allative mixed. Lekhoon is "from language" and yeraan is "for you" (or if you want that in plural, as if you are talking to us, it's of course yerea ... or you can go formal/public/distanced and use shafkea - that works the same for singular and plural).
Mnemonic, anyone? Perhaps from -> -oon/oa and towards -> -aan/ea... "for" pretty much destroys the mnemonic, but I find what I mostly remember mnemonics, is how they don't work, so then they kind of work again. "Towards" also has a strong sense of not being "there" yet, which is handy, because Dothraki ablative ("from") carries the sense of still being "there" (cf. ma; nirat; inalienable possessions).

Try using less prepositions. Dothraki use primarily noun cases, and prepositions only when cases won't deliver. It seems to me lekhoon dothraki works fine without preposition, yeraan probably also.

Structurally I'm not a big fan of that quite enormous subject argument with two adpositional phrases (Asi gizikhveni anni ha lekhaan dothraki ha yeroon). I'd probably try tp break it down, to form a relative clause, maybe. But this is not about grammatical right ot wrong anymore, just ruminating on stylistic possibilities.

"In a few days now" is a curious phrase, and does not necessarily translate well at all: "What? Now and/or few days? Make up your mind!" Something like loy assekhi ajjinoon ("in a few days from now") could work better ... or worse. I don't think we have too sure footing among time/place adverbs altogether.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 02:04:40 pm by Qvaak »
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 12:53:27 am »
M'ath.

So, to recall, the two sentences should be :

Ase gizikhveni anni lekhoon dothraki yeraan loy asshekhi ajjinoon.
sorry Qvaak but my sweet words are for someone else  ;D

and

Anha ovvethak dalen zoqwe thash shafkea, zhey Khaleesi.

(Which language is kiai borrowed from?)
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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 11:46:01 am »
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So, to recall, the two sentences should be
Perhaps? You may notice I'm often far from sure. I'm only a bit more advanced student. Anha ovvethak... sentence looks actually rather solid, but Ase gizikhveni... is more adventurous and a lot more unsure.

Quote
Which language is kiai borrowed from?
That's from Japan, if I'm not mistaken. Quite used in martial arts world, but I have picked it from go vocabulary. It should be ~ fighting spirit, mettle.
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Najahho

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 05:23:45 pm »
Not wanting to be nit-picky but: Shouldn't "in a few days"  use some kind of preposition? I mean you just wrote "from dothraki to you few days from now", I would suggest using she. Although my heart says "mra". :p
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2012, 06:17:53 am »
That's from Japan, if I'm not mistaken. Quite used in martial arts world, but I have picked it from go vocabulary. It should be ~ fighting spirit, mettle.

That's what I thought. Well kiai is, as you pointed, more an onomatopoeia from martial art than a real word. (it's known as the killing sound as well)
If I had to describe my way in nihhon gô I would say that I write with kokoro or toshi, I have hi no tôshi (heart in flame). Even tôshido (path of the heart) might be correct ( but I need to check that).

Well time to go back to Dothraki for me .   ;D
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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2012, 09:35:50 pm »
Quote
Not wanting to be nit-picky but: Shouldn't "in a few days"  use some kind of preposition? I mean you just wrote "from dothraki to you few days from now", I would suggest using she. Although my heart says "mra". :p
Perhaps? hehh... I'd say no, but that's just my poorly educated guess. Dothraki are less preposition-happy than English, so I try to do without when is seems feasible. I probably try too hard, though. We're not on a strong footing with these kind of adverb things. Simple things like rekke, silokh or ajjin certainly work as is, as they do in English (even though exopressions like "today" seem to have an incorporated preposition).
If you mean that the phrases mean a bit different things, I guess they do. Even in English you can (I think) say either "Few days from now..." or "In a few days..." and the former has a sense of "after few days have passed" and latter "within a few days time", but since the time scale is imprecise and I would use neither of potentially imminent occurence, I find them practically identical in meaning.

I would think it's hard to be nit-pickier than me, and why not, if you could; when most of us are nowhere near linguists, discussion is the best way to widen one's perpective and see the problems and possibilities.

Quote
That's what I thought. Well kiai is, as you pointed, more an onomatopoeia from martial art than a real word. (it's known as the killing sound as well)
Ah well, maybe it's more real word as a "loan word" in English text. It's certainly used: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Kiai
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ingsve

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2012, 10:05:49 pm »
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That's what I thought. Well kiai is, as you pointed, more an onomatopoeia from martial art than a real word. (it's known as the killing sound as well)
Ah well, maybe it's more real word as a "loan word" in English text. It's certainly used: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Kiai

Perhaps it's similar to a word like Hurrah which also has an onomatopoetic aspect but is also word in its own right.
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Havazhyol

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2012, 02:48:30 am »
Perhaps it's similar to a word like Hurrah which also has an onomatopoetic aspect but is also word in its own right.

My judo sensei told me that the Kiai was the perfect sound to represent an explosive attack.
1) It physicaly sheathe the abdominal muscles when shouted, which plays on the vertebral column, and so, help to ensure your equilibrium and position.
2) It's pronunciation is kind of a Gaussian, to speak in Ingsve technical langage. Ki- when you launch the attack the "0;0" point, and -iai is the curve itself, the a being the peak.

It must have been introduce in common language as a word.

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Re: Help for translation
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2012, 05:08:54 pm »
Perhaps? hehh... I'd say no, but that's just my poorly educated guess. Dothraki are less preposition-happy than English, so I try to do without when is seems feasible. I probably try too hard, though. We're not on a strong footing with these kind of adverb things. Simple things like rekke, silokh or ajjin certainly work as is, as they do in English (even though exopressions like "today" seem to have an incorporated preposition).
If you mean that the phrases mean a bit different things, I guess they do. Even in English you can (I think) say either "Few days from now..." or "In a few days..." and the former has a sense of "after few days have passed" and latter "within a few days time", but since the time scale is imprecise and I would use neither of potentially imminent occurence, I find them practically identical in meaning.

I would think it's hard to be nit-pickier than me, and why not, if you could; when most of us are nowhere near linguists, discussion is the best way to widen one's perpective and see the problems and possibilities.

I don't know. As a linguist I don't think you can just say "few days from now" in the sentence and leave it like that, not in any language. I don't think Dothraki is "less preposition-happy than English" it just uses prepositions where it needs to, in this case it needs to, unless you could use an allative, but certainly it needs either a prep. or a case. But then again, this is my hunch.

About kiai:
I think it's quite a noun, I found: 気合(P); 気合い 【きあい】 (n) scream; yell; fighting spirit;
from what I could find it is well attested, common onomatopoeic expressions tend to be written solely in hiragana, this one has its own kanji. The kanji by themselves seem to mean "agreement of spirits" or "joining of spirits".
It of course could be the case that the noun just so happens to be great to represent the action, which is quite cool.
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