Author Topic: I need your help!  (Read 5988 times)

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Laura

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I need your help!
« on: August 27, 2012, 10:21:08 am »
Hello guys!

I want to know what 'love of my life' in dothraki.
Thanks. ;)

ingsve

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 10:40:39 am »
Hello guys!

I want to know what 'love of my life' in dothraki.
Thanks. ;)

We don't have a confirmed word for being someone "love" but we have the verb "to love someone" so I can take a guess based on that. My guess would be zhilak which could probably work but it might just as easily work as "lover".

So "love of my life" would then be: Zhilak athirari anni.

A Dothraki way of saying the same thing would be to use the phrases "Moon of my life" for a woman and "My sun and stars" for a man. Those would be:

Jalan athirari anni - Moon of my life.

Shekh ma shieraki anni - My sun and stars.
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Najahho

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 04:34:11 pm »
That's good,  but shouldn't you use a more passive agent? Because the "love of my life" is actually the "lovee" you mean, not the "lover" that is the one who is speaking, the eromenes, not the erostes.
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Hrakkar

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 07:34:15 pm »
That's good,  but shouldn't you use a more passive agent? Because the "love of my life" is actually the "lovee" you mean, not the "lover" that is the one who is speaking, the eromenes, not the erostes.

I can se your logic in reasoning this, but the usage of language is ultimately determined by culture. Since Shekh ma shieraki anni and Jalan athirari anni have been established by culture, they would be the most appropriate terms to use. As far as passivity goes, true love, especially between two people, in not a 'passive' thing in the least. A more passive construction might be saved for a sentence like 'I love rutabagas'.

Sometimes, for some reason, the word that would best 'fit the bill' in English simply does not exist in another language, and I think this is a good example. Another, even stronger example of this comes from Na'vi, where there there is no infinitives. So therefore, to say 'I love you' requires the more complex construction Yawne nga lu oeru - 'beloved you (are) to me'. (Of course, these words can be freely rearranged as Na'vi has free word order).
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Najahho

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 08:15:33 pm »
That's good,  but shouldn't you use a more passive agent? Because the "love of my life" is actually the "lovee" you mean, not the "lover" that is the one who is speaking, the eromenes, not the erostes.

I can se your logic in reasoning this, but the usage of language is ultimately determined by culture. Since Shekh ma shieraki anni and Jalan athirari anni have been established by culture, they would be the most appropriate terms to use. As far as passivity goes, true love, especially between two people, in not a 'passive' thing in the least. A more passive construction might be saved for a sentence like 'I love rutabagas'.

Sometimes, for some reason, the word that would best 'fit the bill' in English simply does not exist in another language, and I think this is a good example. Another, even stronger example of this comes from Na'vi, where there there is no infinitives. So therefore, to say 'I love you' requires the more complex construction Yawne nga lu oeru - 'beloved you (are) to me'. (Of course, these words can be freely rearranged as Na'vi has free word order).

I totally agree with you in these respects.

But you mistake what I said. I'm not saying love is passive, I'm saying that in this case "love of my life" what one means is "the one I love", the "love" as in "the object of my love" which is the person I'm referring to. In this case the noun is "passive" syntactically, because it is "the object of my love" (note that object is the accusative you'd use in "te amo" for latin). That is why this "love of my life" can be easily replaced with "beloved of my life" (note a passive verb). If you use -ak, I think it implies an active aspect, "to ride" -> "rider" (he who rides), "to guard" -> "guard" (he who guards), "to love" -> "lover" (he who loves someone), so in this case, the one saying the words is the "zhilak" and the other... well... the "zhilak-ee" xD

But I agree with you about the culture determining the construction and I agree that "Jalan athirari anni" and the other are the norm to express this very common expression of ours. Also that each languages can express it in their own way.

Btw: don't we have a way to turn verbs into nouns? Shouldn't we try that? (If we want to use that phrasing, but I repeat I concur that "Jalan..." is the more common way to express this).
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ingsve

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 12:43:29 am »
That's good,  but shouldn't you use a more passive agent? Because the "love of my life" is actually the "lovee" you mean, not the "lover" that is the one who is speaking, the eromenes, not the erostes.

I can se your logic in reasoning this, but the usage of language is ultimately determined by culture. Since Shekh ma shieraki anni and Jalan athirari anni have been established by culture, they would be the most appropriate terms to use. As far as passivity goes, true love, especially between two people, in not a 'passive' thing in the least. A more passive construction might be saved for a sentence like 'I love rutabagas'.

Sometimes, for some reason, the word that would best 'fit the bill' in English simply does not exist in another language, and I think this is a good example. Another, even stronger example of this comes from Na'vi, where there there is no infinitives. So therefore, to say 'I love you' requires the more complex construction Yawne nga lu oeru - 'beloved you (are) to me'. (Of course, these words can be freely rearranged as Na'vi has free word order).

I totally agree with you in these respects.

But you mistake what I said. I'm not saying love is passive, I'm saying that in this case "love of my life" what one means is "the one I love", the "love" as in "the object of my love" which is the person I'm referring to. In this case the noun is "passive" syntactically, because it is "the object of my love" (note that object is the accusative you'd use in "te amo" for latin). That is why this "love of my life" can be easily replaced with "beloved of my life" (note a passive verb). If you use -ak, I think it implies an active aspect, "to ride" -> "rider" (he who rides), "to guard" -> "guard" (he who guards), "to love" -> "lover" (he who loves someone), so in this case, the one saying the words is the "zhilak" and the other... well... the "zhilak-ee" xD

But I agree with you about the culture determining the construction and I agree that "Jalan athirari anni" and the other are the norm to express this very common expression of ours. Also that each languages can express it in their own way.

Btw: don't we have a way to turn verbs into nouns? Shouldn't we try that? (If we want to use that phrasing, but I repeat I concur that "Jalan..." is the more common way to express this).

Yes, we do. David suggested a construction like that when we discussed it a bit in an IRC chat. You can say Athzhilar atthirari anni. The ath- -ar circumfix is a standard nominalization.

Regarding -(a)k. It doesn't always imply an active aspect. It can also just be a construction that makes the word into a person rather than something else. An example we have is the word chifti which means cricket. When you use the -(a)k suffix it becomes chiftik which might mean something like "cricket man" which is an insult directed at a person.
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Najahho

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 05:17:14 pm »
At least we can agree that when this -ak is applied to a verb it creates an active agent.
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ingsve

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 09:51:27 am »
At least we can agree that when this -ak is applied to a verb it creates an active agent.

No, not really that either. Since a lot of verbs a stative verbs (to be adjective) then it wouldn't be active either. For example zheanalat means "to be beautiful" so zheanak would means "one who is beautiful".

I think I can agree that for all transitive verbs then -ak would create and active agent (hides before someone finds a counter example).
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Najahho

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 12:18:17 pm »
In fact in your own example you make my point... even the stative makes it "one who is beautiful" not "one he is beauty-fied"...

"I am beautiful" is the very example of Active Voice...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 12:19:59 pm by Niqqo »
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ingsve

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 08:14:32 pm »
In fact in your own example you make my point... even the stative makes it "one who is beautiful" not "one he is beauty-fied"...

"I am beautiful" is the very example of Active Voice...

Hmm ok. I thought an active agent would have to be more literally active rather than just a copula. Shows my limited linguistics knowledge. Bring on the physics.
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Najahho

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 12:30:46 pm »
Well, active when possible
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Hrakkar

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Re: I need your help!
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 05:50:10 pm »
But this thread is clearing up a lot of confusion concerning 'active' vs 'passive'. This stuff has applications in understnading many languages.

It also shows how difficult it can be to get 'meaning' across in a different language, if that language is not a primary language for you.
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