Author Topic: Javrathat  (Read 3019 times)

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Hrakkar

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Javrathat
« on: November 15, 2011, 01:45:11 pm »
In the process of working on the dictionary, I ran across a word with a ambiguous definition. The word is javrathat, which is defined as a verb meaning 'to rein'. I noticed a couple other places where there were words that weren't quite perfect English translations (but still clearly understandable), and wonder if this is another one that is a little more unclear. A strong case can be made for either interpretation.

The first case is for as the definition is written: 'to rein'. Since the Dothraki are horse people, this would make a lot of sense. It is just an odd way to describe controlling a horse by ita reins. (It is interesting to note that there aren't a whole lot of terms for tack yet in the language.)

The second possible interpretation is 'to reign'. Since the storyline that spawned this language deals with leaders, having a word for 'reign' makes perfect sense.

Can anyone shed any light on what is the right meaning?
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ingsve

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 02:01:17 pm »
In the process of working on the dictionary, I ran across a word with a ambiguous definition. The word is javrathat, which is defined as a verb meaning 'to rein'. I noticed a couple other places where there were words that weren't quite perfect English translations (but still clearly understandable), and wonder if this is another one that is a little more unclear. A strong case can be made for either interpretation.

The first case is for as the definition is written: 'to rein'. Since the Dothraki are horse people, this would make a lot of sense. It is just an odd way to describe controlling a horse by ita reins. (It is interesting to note that there aren't a whole lot of terms for tack yet in the language.)

The second possible interpretation is 'to reign'. Since the storyline that spawned this language deals with leaders, having a word for 'reign' makes perfect sense.

Can anyone shed any light on what is the right meaning?

It means to rein in your horses. The context in which is was used was that Jorah told Qotho to "rein in his tongue".
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Najahho

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 07:00:16 pm »
No doubts a crafty expression. I like the sound to it... I also like this other word "athdavrazar" I think... I'm just saying it as I remember... I like it a lot, a nice Russian touch in the sound of it, I think it means "better" or "best" and "dobriye" is "good" in Russian, a nice lift.
Athhajar vidrie anna ayyey

ingsve

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 09:43:08 pm »
No doubts a crafty expression. I like the sound to it... I also like this other word "athdavrazar" I think... I'm just saying it as I remember... I like it a lot, a nice Russian touch in the sound of it, I think it means "better" or "best" and "dobriye" is "good" in Russian, a nice lift.

Athdavrazar literally means "usefullness" but when used as an expression it means "Excellent!". Generally the verb "to be useful" is used when expressing that something is good.
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Hrakkar

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 01:08:22 pm »
I looked for that line, and found just one use of 'rein' in the dialogue from the series:

-Jorah: Javrathi lekh. Me zin Khaleesi shafki. ''Rein in your tongue. She is still your Khaleesi.''

We do have a word for 'in', namely she, which wasn't used here. javrathat is used imperatively here, so the 'in' is implied.

I am tempted to make the definition of javrathat to read 'to rein (in a controlling-a-horse sense)' as opposed to 'to rein (a horse)', as its use in this example has nothing directly to do with horses. It is kind of an idiomatic usage.

What do others think?
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Najahho

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 03:31:20 pm »
Nah, why should you include "(in a controlling-a-horse sense)", I think the expression stands for itself. The proof that is understandable is that the translation also used "to rein". I don't think you should add that to it, it's an expression and goes to show a little glimpse of the mind of its speakers.
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Qvaak

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 12:57:48 am »
I'm not at all sure, what the exact sense of the idiom is for dothraki, and I doubt it can be really inferred. Finns would say just "suitsi kielesi", "put reins on your tongue" (though I don't think this is often used idiom). Dictionary offers check, bridle and limit as near synonyms for rein. For me it seems the most relevant question would be if the sense is closer to "guide in your tongue" or "bind in your tongue".

I'd say the best policy is to try to keep the definitions general as long as we don't have any solid evidence that the word has narrower meaning or carries some extra senses... and to amend the shortcomings in definitions by adding more quotes. From quotes the reader of the wiki can then make their own judgements on the accuracy of the translation.
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Hrakkar

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Re: Javrathat
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 12:32:46 pm »
Thank you for the input. I think here that javrathat has been clearly been shown here to have a broad meaning, certainly broader than simply 'controlling a horse'. (And it may be confusing to call Jorah's statement an idiom as it makes sense in both English and Dothraki) So, I think the dictionary will simply get a note on this word that says 'broad usage'.
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