Author Topic: Valyrian site?  (Read 6300 times)

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Qvaak

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Valyrian site?
« on: April 04, 2013, 01:56:29 pm »
Hey.

Should we make it, can we make it? And when I say we, I of course mean pretty much you, not me. I think there's no need for a wiki yet, but a forum would be nice. It would be much nicer to say to people like this: http://hurlingfrootmig.com/2013/04/02/valyrianprofile/, "Come to our forum.valyrian(s?).org website to discuss the language(s)!" than to say "Come to our forum.dothraki.org website to talk about the Valyrian language(s), 'cause we are the (original) people interested in GoT conlang family and there's a lot of interest in Valyrian, even though it's not exactly what it says on the tin, and anyway we think one strong GoT conlang fandom (or 'people with interest', if you find 'fandom' itchy) is much preferable to fragmentary field of different languages."

Does it make sense to make valyrian.org? Would it be better to create gotlanguages.org or something, with subpages for different languages? I don't like the idea of forgoing dothraki.org and it does not sound bad to me to have valyrian.org. Not that we couldn't make an umbrella page nevertheless, but it does not seem a priority. Don't domain names cost and all? How does/would this work?
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ingsve

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 09:47:36 pm »
I believe that current it's Seabass from Learn Na'vi that is hosting and paying for dothraki.org. I'm not really sure how things like this work and what it would take to register and get a new site up and running. I know David has said that we could move Dothraki.org to LCS if we want bur right now having it on the Learn Navi server seems to work.

I think Hrakkar knows more about this stuff.
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Adogs

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 04:22:37 am »
Hi everyone!

I'm really excited to finally hear some Valyrian (or at least a child language thereof). 

Although I never got around to looking seriously at Dothraki, I'm definitely interested in learning some High Valyrian and keen to get in on the ground floor with this...  Is it worth attaching a Valyrian section to the Dothraki wiki and we split it off later?

Cheers, Aaron

Hrakkar

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 01:50:56 pm »
Chiming in a bit late here because I have been traveling, and fighting a nasty law that would close our zoo, and remove the 'kitties' from my world.

I have toyed with the idea of starting at minimum, a Valyrian dictionary. I have talked to Tuiq about the feasibility of doing so. It would also require approval from Seabass. However, nothing can proceed until we have at least an alphabet, some basic phonotactics and grammar, and enough words to make it worthwhile.

Someone would also, as pointed out, have to host the domain name. I would have to clear this through David, as there may be copyright/trademark issues with the word 'Valyrian'. This is something that ultimately might even best be done by the LCS (or David himself), although I am willing to host the domain name as well. It is also possible that LearnNavi might want to do it, although there is not a lot of interest these days in GoT on the LearnNavi side of the world. (Maybe Westeros is on the other side of Pandora ;)  )

As  far as starting an entire form/wiki system, this would be practical if we get enough information from David to justify setting up such a system. A wiki and dictionary will probably be needed sooner than a forum though, as this kind of information is hard to put on a forum, whereas a discussion an temporarily be hosted elsewhere (like here).

I do like the idea of creating a Valyrian forum here, at least for the time being, until we see what kind of interest level there is in Valyrian (and if there end up being multiple versions of Valyrian). Personally, I am quite interested in Valyrian, especially High Valyrian. But I am struggling as it is with working on both Na'vi and Dothraki (and my Dothraki has been suffering as of late due to extra emphasis being put on Na'vi where I am now involved with the Lexical Expansion Project). So at this time, a seious study of High Valyrian is not in the cards for me, unless it comes along slowly.

Overall, I think the idea of having a master home for all the GoT conlangs is an excellent idea. But with the Dothraki community having a big jumpstart on everything else, some discussion should be had as to how to best go about this. A lot would also depend on how much of a community exists for each language. If the communities are small, a group site might work the best. If a big community should develop, they are probably best with their own site and toolset. It could be that the master site would not be much more than a 'pointer' to the various enthusiast communities for each of the conlangs, with additional links to the most commonly used language tools readily available.
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ingsve

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 10:35:50 pm »
Wouldn't the best solution be to change the current dothraki.org site into a combined "languages of game of thrones site" with just changing the headings of the wiki and the forum and creating separate sections for the various languages in the wiki and forum? Then we just create a valyrian.org adress that redirects to the same place as dothraki.org.
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Hrakkar

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 02:57:23 pm »
Wouldn't the best solution be to change the current dothraki.org site into a combined "languages of game of thrones site" with just changing the headings of the wiki and the forum and creating separate sections for the various languages in the wiki and forum? Then we just create a valyrian.org adress that redirects to the same place as dothraki.org.

Yes and no. I think your basic idea is on the right track, but you wouldn't want to change Dothraki.org. Too many things point to it, that are involved with Dothraki. Either an all new, multi lingual site is needed, with links to it here, or this site becomes that, but retains the Dothraki.org name. It is possible to have more than one domain name point to a site, or to points within the site. Separate wikis, I think, will be required.

I see there is enough information on alphabet and phonology that it might be possible to get a dictionary going.
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ingsve

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 08:51:30 pm »
Wouldn't the best solution be to change the current dothraki.org site into a combined "languages of game of thrones site" with just changing the headings of the wiki and the forum and creating separate sections for the various languages in the wiki and forum? Then we just create a valyrian.org adress that redirects to the same place as dothraki.org.

Yes and no. I think your basic idea is on the right track, but you wouldn't want to change Dothraki.org. Too many things point to it, that are involved with Dothraki. Either an all new, multi lingual site is needed, with links to it here, or this site becomes that, but retains the Dothraki.org name. It is possible to have more than one domain name point to a site, or to points within the site. Separate wikis, I think, will be required.

I see there is enough information on alphabet and phonology that it might be possible to get a dictionary going.

I wasn't suggesting changing the dothraki.org URL. Just to add another URL called valyrian.org or something that points to the same place as dothraki.org
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 12:26:48 am »
Should we just start a Valyrian language(s) wiki on wikia or something so we can start compiling the info given by DJP or decoded by the Mad Latinist etc each week, then migrate it later once we work out what's happening with URLs etc?

Hrakkar

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 12:38:39 am »
There is enough info around now, I think a wiki can be started. Who would host it? What's needed on the backend?
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ingsve

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2013, 03:33:02 am »
Make sure to check the AMA that David did on Reddit this week as well. There were some High Valyrian words given there. For example Dothraki now has a word for book that is borrow from Valyrian.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

seabass

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 12:42:40 am »
Something I can do? Message/email me - I only occasionally stop be here :)

Hrakkar

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 01:11:00 am »
Zhey Payoang, I PM'ed you on the LearnNavi side about this!
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Hrakkar

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 07:00:45 pm »
So here is where this idea stands as of now.

I have been exchanging emails with David, and the feeling I get is that the Dothraki/Valyrian is fine right here. Payoang has indicated we can do this as well. However, nothing is final yet, and any real action will probably have to wait until after May 5th.

The Dothraki site will stay as-is, with added links to other related sites.
A new site will be created for the Valyrian languages (High Valyrian HV and Astrapori (sic!) Valyrian AV). This will be pointed to by a domain name, either valyrian.org of learnvalyrian.org (which one do you like?) Just like the Dothraki page, ther will be links to the wikis, forums, dictionaries, and the other related language sites.
A master GoT language page will also be created, which links to all others, present and future. This will likely have links to all the learning resources, as well as the forums. I have no idea what to use a s a domain name here. Suggestions are welcome.
The forums will be common to all languages, and will be expanded to have areas for each languages, as well as some more common 'fandom' areas. (But in general, mainline fandom will continue to be found at sites like Westeros.org)
There will be separate wikis and dictionaries for HV and AV, unless someone can make a convincing case to combine them.
We will keep and use our existing IRC channel, and can create additional channels, if warranted.
Nothing here will be fancy or complex, about akin to the existing Dothraki site.

There is no way for me to manage this alone, so we will have several mods/administrators, etc. for everything, like we have now.

Does this sound reasonable?
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ingsve

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 09:52:40 pm »
I think that if there is a combined frontpage for all languages then the domains dothraki.org and valyrian.org (my preferred choice) should point to the combined front page rather than just the specific subsection for the language in question.
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Qvaak

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Re: Valyrian site?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 04:05:48 pm »
Quote
There will be separate wikis and dictionaries for HV and AV, unless someone can make a convincing case to combine them.
Not sure about convincing, but a case I'll make. Separate dictionaries sound reasonable, altough they'll probably overlap a lot. I'm guessing that HV words can in most cases be mechanically derived into AV, but AV words that come from Ghiscari won't figure into HV. Making one sensibly structured dictionary would be a pain at least alphabetically - by roots it might actually work very well, which is worth considering.
On the other hand, I definitely would prefer just one Valyrian wiki, centered into the mother language High Valyrian. Not all the grammar is different. I think it's much more reasonable to have wiki pages with sections for differences between dialects, eg. one article for adjective declension with a subsection for where and how Astapori Valyrian does things differently. For some topics like word order the articles might even be separate, but for some articles there might be no need for any Astapori section. I, for one, am interested in the whole picture of Valyrian language and it's path to regional dialects and I find fragmentation into separate wikis just a drag. And we will probably not have too many hands and work hours, so one wiki would also lighten the workload. I think we'd soon run to situations where writing AV would be flipping between two wikis, because some elements of the language were not known specifically for AV, but could be deduced/loaned with reasonable certainity from how things go in HV.
Game of Thrones is not The Song of Ice and Fire, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow.