Author Topic: The dothraki language wiki site.  (Read 20325 times)

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ingsve

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 11:58:06 am »
There seems to be some internal error with the Wiki. Is anyone else experiencing that?

It's back now...not sure what happened.
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Allanwr

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2011, 03:12:30 am »
I would like to make a few suggestions about the grammar descriptions, specifically suggestions of extra examples that might be added to make the descriptions more unambiguous.

Noun cases

I would suggest that declension of an animate noun ending with a vowel in the dictionary form should be shown. Perhaps mafo (young goat, kid) would be suitable.  :)

Similarly, can we have the declination of an inanimate gender noun ending in a consonant, for example tim (boot).

It would probably help clarify things if you also include examples of inanimate nouns that undergoing epenthesis in the Accusative - for example jimma (west) to show how a geminated consonant is deal with, and sondra (dragon glass) for when the -e is added.

Adjectives - Declension

Does Anha ray alegre ivezha also mean 'I have seen the beautiful ducks'? If so, can you say so. If it doesn't, what does? Even a 'We don't know what the plural of the adjective is in this case' would clarify the situation.

Adjectives - Comparison

Can someone add an adjective ending in a vowel other than "a", preferably an "o", for instance hakeso (famous)?

Vocabulary

Two points here.

The word gavat is given as 'n. meat   accusative: gavat'. As the Accusative given is regularly formed for an inanimate noun (and would be, I think, gavates if it is an animate noun), why is it defined as gender unknown?

The word sovikh is defined as 'ni. pear brandy   past: sovikh'. Is this, perchance, a hint as to how long pear brandy lasts amongst Dothraki?  ;) More seriously, I assume it should read 'accusative: sovikh'.

I would make these changes myself, but (a) I know nothing about formatting wiki entries, and (more importantly) (b) I am uncertain that I would get the Dothraki right. :D And I apologise for any errors in my Dothraki and my English (especially the spelling, though at least one of those errors are because you Americans can't spell).  ;D

My thanks for the work put into this wiki. My comments above not withstanding, I am impressed by the effort, and am painfully aware that if I did it, it would have a LOT more errors in it.

ingsve

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2011, 04:47:03 am »
I would like to make a few suggestions about the grammar descriptions, specifically suggestions of extra examples that might be added to make the descriptions more unambiguous.

Hi, and thanks for the suggestions.




Quote
Noun cases

I would suggest that declension of an animate noun ending with a vowel in the dictionary form should be shown. Perhaps mafo (young goat, kid) would be suitable.  :)

Similarly, can we have the declination of an inanimate gender noun ending in a consonant, for example tim (boot).

It would probably help clarify things if you also include examples of inanimate nouns that undergoing epenthesis in the Accusative - for example jimma (west) to show how a geminated consonant is deal with, and sondra (dragon glass) for when the -e is added.

Adding more examples to the declensions is a good idea. It's been a while since that page was first started and we have learnt more things since then. I'll take a look at that.


Quote
Adjectives - Declension

Does Anha ray alegre ivezha also mean 'I have seen the beautiful ducks'? If so, can you say so. If it doesn't, what does? Even a 'We don't know what the plural of the adjective is in this case' would clarify the situation.

That's a good question. What we know is what is there really. I think it would be a good idea to find out from David both how plurals work with adjectives ending in a vowel and also how the plural agreement combines with noun case agreement.

Just to correct you also so there is no confusion. Anha ray alegre ivezha means "I already wild duck" which of course makes no sense. I think you meant to write Anha ray tih alegre ivezha. Which would mean "I have seen the wild duck" or Anha ray tih alegre laina which means "I have seen the beautiful duck".

Quote
Adjectives - Comparison

Can someone add an adjective ending in a vowel other than "a", preferably an "o", for instance hakeso (famous)?

Ah yes. That's another good idea. I see now that the general rule isn't listed so it can be confusing as it is right now.

Quote
Vocabulary

Two points here.

The word gavat is given as 'n. meat   accusative: gavat'. As the Accusative given is regularly formed for an inanimate noun (and would be, I think, gavates if it is an animate noun), why is it defined as gender unknown?

The word sovikh is defined as 'ni. pear brandy   past: sovikh'. Is this, perchance, a hint as to how long pear brandy lasts amongst Dothraki?  ;) More seriously, I assume it should read 'accusative: sovikh'.

I would make these changes myself, but (a) I know nothing about formatting wiki entries, and (more importantly) (b) I am uncertain that I would get the Dothraki right. :D And I apologise for any errors in my Dothraki and my English (especially the spelling, though at least one of those errors are because you Americans can't spell).  ;D

My thanks for the work put into this wiki. My comments above not withstanding, I am impressed by the effort, and am painfully aware that if I did it, it would have a LOT more errors in it.

Gavat seems to simply be an oversight. It should be an inanimate noun I think (but now I'm not sure all of a sudden).

With sovikh I'm guessing Qvaak simply used the wrong template.
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Allanwr

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2011, 12:01:56 pm »
Thanks for your reply. As for the point about sentence I quoted being wrong, blame typing it in rather than copying it across (I said I would get the Dothraki wrong :) ).

One more thought occurs; certain words like laz are described as Auxillary verbs, but to be honest, they act more like English modals than English auxillary verbs. True, people are more likely to recognise the term auxillary verb, but the idea of a modal is simple enough to explain with examples from English. Just a thought.

If I spot other things that might help, I'll add them here.

Fonas chek.

ingsve

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2011, 12:37:38 pm »
Thanks for your reply. As for the point about sentence I quoted being wrong, blame typing it in rather than copying it across (I said I would get the Dothraki wrong :) ).

One more thought occurs; certain words like laz are described as Auxillary verbs, but to be honest, they act more like English modals than English auxillary verbs. True, people are more likely to recognise the term auxillary verb, but the idea of a modal is simple enough to explain with examples from English. Just a thought.

If I spot other things that might help, I'll add them here.

Fonas chek.

What to call those small little words has been discussed quite a bit. They're not really auxillary verbs since they're not really verbs, they are more like adverbs. David Peterson calls them postpositional particles. In the same way they're not really like the english modal verbs either since that is just a subset of auxillary verbs. The word that Qvaak settled on for now at least is verbal auxillaries which implies that they are words that help or complement the verb. Though that is perhaps also not perfect since that word seems to be used interchangeably with auxillary verb.
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Hrakkar

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2011, 01:21:25 pm »
I have plans to eventually put some of this basic grammar stuff at the end of the dictionary as well. It is very useful for day-to-day word and sentence building. And something I need to know a lot more about!
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ingsve

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2011, 03:42:01 pm »
Quote
Adjectives - Declension

Does Anha ray alegre ivezha also mean 'I have seen the beautiful ducks'? If so, can you say so. If it doesn't, what does? Even a 'We don't know what the plural of the adjective is in this case' would clarify the situation.

That's a good question. What we know is what is there really. I think it would be a good idea to find out from David both how plurals work with adjectives ending in a vowel and also how the plural agreement combines with noun case agreement.

Just to correct you also so there is no confusion. Anha ray alegre ivezha means "I already wild duck" which of course makes no sense. I think you meant to write Anha ray tih alegre ivezha. Which would mean "I have seen the wild duck" or Anha ray tih alegre laina which means "I have seen the beautiful duck".

The answer is that both rules (agreement with number and case) only applies to adjectives ending in a consonant. If both rules apply then number takes precedence over noun case.

"I have seen the beautiful ducks" would then be Anha ray tih alegre laini.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Qvaak

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2011, 05:45:06 am »
Just a quick note on the wiki development..

We have finally got the Dothraki dialogue from the TV series to the wiki: http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Season_One_Dothraki_Dialogue (there's a link on the main page too). It may still be a bit rough around the edges. I'm trying to add glosses. If someone likes to help on that, you're welcome. I haven't really read even the Wikipedia gloss article with any thoroughness, so a lot of abbreviations and other executive choices are made on the fly and based on nothing but a whim, but it's all very good because I'm awesome.

Help Wanted page got updated too: http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Help_Wanted. So if you have time and energy, but are out of ideas, there are at least some. All help is appreciated. Practically all changes can be undone, so don't be afraid to try.
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Daenerys

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 03:16:54 pm »
Started posting the Dothraki Word Groupings I already mentioned working on.  I look forward to all the ruthless edits and corrections (especially in the grammar section).

Creating all the tables is time consuming. I originally worked in MS Word. Not finding an easy way to keep the tables, I am recreating them by hand on the Wiki.

I have already started entering, but it will take me a little while to complete it. It won't be done at a single sitting, as I hoped. :)

Hope it's helpful.

Hrakkar

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2011, 12:58:32 pm »
Athdavrazar, zhey Daenerys! The word groupings is one of the most useful tools I have seen yet for any of the languages I am learning (and I may build one for Na'vi when I find time :(  ). Two things need to be done, one of which will take wiki mod powers. First, there should be a link to at least the vocabulary page if not the home page. Second, start a thread, probably in this forum, for discussion on the word groupings. That way people will be able to comment, suggest changes/improvements/corrections, etc.

And, you earned your very first karma point for this!
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Qvaak

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2011, 01:28:01 pm »
I find it easier to comment at the wiki discussion pages, but if that does not work for everyone, do discuss here too.
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Daenerys

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 12:00:26 am »
Thanks! :)

The Wiki discussion page probably would work best.

Just an FYI: I still haven't finished posting all the categories. I did the work originally in Word.  Now, I am basically recreating tables and using copy and paste, so no doubt there will be some mistakes forthcoming. This is a very time consumptive past time. :) 

I just read the comments you made, zhey Qvaak, on the wiki. I'll respond quickly here as I still need to familiarize myself with the wiki editing tools.

I fixed the italics on "Hadaen". That was a typo.   

The numbers (1) etc., are there, as I wanted to indicate that the word had more than one meaning/definition attached to it and reference it back to the dictionary, but if you think they should be removed or if anyone has another suggestion to indicate the word has multiple meanings, let me know.

Regarding verb stems and case assignments, I am still trying to get my bearings there, so if anyone would like to take that on, please do, or I can try to tackle it after I finish posting the rest of the groupings.


Qvaak

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 01:31:43 pm »
Quote
Just an FYI: I still haven't finished posting all the categories. I did the work originally in Word.  Now, I am basically recreating tables and using copy and paste, so no doubt there will be some mistakes forthcoming. This is a very time consumptive past time.

Alright. Just tell us when it's done. I'll add a link to the Learning Dothraki page and Vocabulary already anyway.

Quote
I fixed the italics on "Hadaen". That was a typo.

I'm still curious. Why the italization, what does it mean?

Quote
The numbers (1) etc., are there, as I wanted to indicate that the word had more than one meaning/definition attached to it and reference it back to the dictionary, but if you think they should be removed or if anyone has another suggestion to indicate the word has multiple meanings, let me know.

Aye. I can see the sense in that. I think they might be removed, but don't remove them just because of me.

Quote
Regarding verb stems and case assignments, I am still trying to get my bearings there, so if anyone would like to take that on, please do, or I can try to tackle it after I finish posting the rest of the groupings.

Yeah. No need to solve that before the page is finished. It seems even me and Ingsve are not totally at the same wave length concerning case assignments.
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Qvaak

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Re: The dothraki language wiki site.
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2014, 08:29:25 pm »
Hey. I trust most of us have the book by now (shiny!). What do you think that should mean to the wiki? My initial thought was that it would not be right to copy stuff from the book to the wiki. Our wiki essentially exist to record and collect stuff in lack of a comprehensive official source. Now that I've read the book, I can say that there's little if anything completely new grammatical information. Some wiki stuff could probably be cleaned and clarified with careful comparison, and I think that probably would be OK, since wiki telling stuff confusingly or wrong isn't exactly good for anyone. I'm a bit sceptical if I'll end up doing the work, though. I'm just saying I support the idea.

But how about the vocab? There's certainly a handful of new words. Those I could add to the wiki's vocab page. I think the page (and the pdf version Hrakkar maintains) is still the most comprehensive word list, and it would IMHO be the right thing to do to keep it current.
Game of Thrones is not The Song of Ice and Fire, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow.