Author Topic: The Dictionary Thread  (Read 28973 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Qvaak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • someone
    • View Profile
    • qvaak-dot-kuutikkaat
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2011, 05:00:02 pm »
Cool. Still, I wish vocabulary took a little more precedence. I think I can see many good reasons for keeping a separate dictionary, wiki vocab being by it's nature fluid and non-definite thing with no autoritative manager (sure, you can retcon changes and lock the whole page, but that's hardly what the page was meant for).

In practice, though, I feel the vocabulary is much more useful tool. I don't need to load new versions - the vocab is always as updated as it is, when I open the page; I don't need to struggle with a bit unwieldy pdf-file, I can use the browser fuctionality I'm comfortable with; wiki functionality even offers some great extra tricks - if you'd updated the vocabulary, I'd just click the "show differences" funtion and wouldn't need to gloss through entire text to see, what has changed.

..aaand OT: I wisited the dothraki.org pages looking for dictionary change log. I rarely go farther than wiki and forum, but I'm guessing many potential language fanciers visit there first, and thus it's nice to see the pages aren't nearly as dead looking than they were some time ago.
A couple of notes, though
 - in the recourses list the dictionary update date is may 23rd, not terribly historic date, but not the right one either.
 - Staff page still has "Currently, Dothraki.org is run by a skeleton crew (since the HBO series ship hasn’t sailed yet.)"

constructive criticism FTW
Game of Thrones is not The Song of Ice and Fire, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow.

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2011, 05:32:52 pm »
Cool. Still, I wish vocabulary took a little more precedence. I think I can see many good reasons for keeping a separate dictionary, wiki vocab being by it's nature fluid and non-definite thing with no autoritative manager (sure, you can retcon changes and lock the whole page, but that's hardly what the page was meant for).

In practice, though, I feel the vocabulary is much more useful tool. I don't need to load new versions - the vocab is always as updated as it is, when I open the page; I don't need to struggle with a bit unwieldy pdf-file, I can use the browser fuctionality I'm comfortable with; wiki functionality even offers some great extra tricks - if you'd updated the vocabulary, I'd just click the "show differences" funtion and wouldn't need to gloss through entire text to see, what has changed.

..aaand OT: I wisited the dothraki.org pages looking for dictionary change log. I rarely go farther than wiki and forum, but I'm guessing many potential language fanciers visit there first, and thus it's nice to see the pages aren't nearly as dead looking than they were some time ago.
A couple of notes, though
 - in the recourses list the dictionary update date is may 23rd, not terribly historic date, but not the right one either.
 - Staff page still has "Currently, Dothraki.org is run by a skeleton crew (since the HBO series ship hasn’t sailed yet.)"

constructive criticism FTW

Well, I try to keep both the dictionary and the vocabulary at the same update level. I just do the dictionary first since I'm the only one that can do it. I guess I could update the vocabulary first and only do the dictionary sporadically. I agree that using the vocabulary is probably easier for learning etc.

I haven't been updating the dothraki.org page that much, I'm not really that at home with word press. . I generally just update the dictionary date (which I forgot to do with this update). I removed the outdated entry though. I try to focus more on the wiki or the forum when I spend time working on Dothraki. Lajaki have been doing some updates with previews etc so that's good.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2011, 09:11:10 pm »
Insgive, your work on the dictionary and the wiki is very much appreciiated.

I have learned through the Na`vi world that the fastest way there is to find a word is to search on it in the dictionary.

My biggest challenge to learing Dothraki (and Na`vi for that matter, but at least I have a good base in that language to build on now) is lack of free time!
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2011, 11:56:47 pm »
Is the dictionary going to be updated? I notice it is now way out of date. The wiki vocabulary is up-to-date with the new name-derived words (thank you, David!) already there. However, the wiki is not as easy to work with as a language learner.

Is the dictionary updated by hand, or is there some database driving it, like the Na`vi dictionary?
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2011, 12:42:31 am »
Is the dictionary going to be updated? I notice it is now way out of date. The wiki vocabulary is up-to-date with the new name-derived words (thank you, David!) already there. However, the wiki is not as easy to work with as a language learner.

Is the dictionary updated by hand, or is there some database driving it, like the Na`vi dictionary?

It's the same type of database as with the Na'vi dictionary. I'm the one that usually updates it and I keep a list of words that haven't been added there yet. But it's a bit tedious to update so I tend to push it up. We've instead focused on keeping the vocabulary in the wiki up to date instead.

I'll try to get to it soon I hope.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2011, 10:00:26 pm »
I know back at the time that Lajaki had backed out of the dictionary project that you were looking for someone to take it over. I was interested at the time, but you were looking for someone with a linguistics background, which I certainly do not have. That said, I would be interested in taking on this project. Having a dictionary that is paginated,  can be printed out, searched locally and usable offline is very useful. This project also supports the English-Dothraki dictionary, which is also at times, quite useful. It would be good for users of languages other than English to get involved and create the dictionary in their own language.
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2011, 11:55:09 pm »
I know back at the time that Lajaki had backed out of the dictionary project that you were looking for someone to take it over. I was interested at the time, but you were looking for someone with a linguistics background, which I certainly do not have. That said, I would be interested in taking on this project. Having a dictionary that is paginated,  can be printed out, searched locally and usable offline is very useful. This project also supports the English-Dothraki dictionary, which is also at times, quite useful. It would be good for users of languages other than English to get involved and create the dictionary in their own language.

Sounds like a plan. We would have to talk to Lajaki to set you up an account on the site that generates the dictionary then.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2011, 12:49:13 am »
The first Hrakkar-edited version of the dictionary (2.10)  is now on line! Please review it for errors. There a couple minor typos in the header and footer I know that need fixing, but I am much more concerned with the content. Any comments on how to do a better job are much appreciated.

The LaTEX parser found all my syntax errors, and made me learn the very basics of LaTEX quickly!

I tried to to look at the wiki vocabulary to see if I can figure out how figure out when it was updated, but I need to study it more, as it is not immediately reader-friendly.  So, I need to do a word-by word comparison to make sure that the documents are initally sync'ed. Since this site is not THAT busy, I am hoping that a few minutes work every few days will afterwards ensure that everything stays in sync.

Insgive, I can see why you thought the dictionary maintenance process was tedious. The Eana Eltu tool is NOT user friendly!

We should fix the varios links to the dictionary to make sure they work (the one on the website homepage does not work), and change the subtitles to say 'updated frequently'.

Thank you for letting me take on this project. I feel like I am actually contributing something to the community now!
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2011, 03:49:08 am »
The first Hrakkar-edited version of the dictionary (2.10)  is now on line! Please review it for errors. There a couple minor typos in the header and footer I know that need fixing, but I am much more concerned with the content. Any comments on how to do a better job are much appreciated.

The LaTEX parser found all my syntax errors, and made me learn the very basics of LaTEX quickly!

I tried to to look at the wiki vocabulary to see if I can figure out how figure out when it was updated, but I need to study it more, as it is not immediately reader-friendly.  So, I need to do a word-by word comparison to make sure that the documents are initally sync'ed. Since this site is not THAT busy, I am hoping that a few minutes work every few days will afterwards ensure that everything stays in sync.

Insgive, I can see why you thought the dictionary maintenance process was tedious. The Eana Eltu tool is NOT user friendly!

We should fix the varios links to the dictionary to make sure they work (the one on the website homepage does not work), and change the subtitles to say 'updated frequently'.

Thank you for letting me take on this project. I feel like I am actually contributing something to the community now!

The one on the website works for me at least.

I'll take a look and see if I find any errors.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2011, 04:13:28 am »
The only thing I could find when looking through was that the IPA for ferri only needs one trilled /r/ ( [feri]).

There were also a couple of old things that needs to be updated:

-charolat should be changed from "to understand" to "to listen".
-The correct nominative should be shor tawakof rather than shori tawakof.

If there are other mistakes I'm sure those will be found eventually. It's hard to spot everything by just looking through it.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2011, 01:17:26 pm »
Thanks. I can fix those little things tonight.

Well, it is tonight, and these items are fixed. Also added a few new words from http://forum.dothraki.org/index.php/topic,23.msg783.html#msg783
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 01:17:03 am by Hrakkar »
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Qvaak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • someone
    • View Profile
    • qvaak-dot-kuutikkaat
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2011, 06:40:16 pm »
Yeah. This is all good. Shared workload rules.

Quote
I tried to to look at the wiki vocabulary to see if I can figure out how figure out when it was updated, but I need to study it more, as it is not immediately reader-friendly.  So, I need to do a word-by word comparison to make sure that the documents are initally sync'ed.

Have you found your way to http://wiki.dothraki.org/index.php?title=Vocabulary&limit=500&action=history? I can see how it's not entirely reader friendly, but in theory the compare selected revisions system is quite spot on. Just compare the current with any old version and you'll see all the changes that have been made since.
That being said, I think the word-by-word comparison is still in the end worth the trouble.
Game of Thrones is not The Song of Ice and Fire, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow.

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 12:30:07 am »
Yeah. This is all good. Shared workload rules.

Quote
I tried to to look at the wiki vocabulary to see if I can figure out how figure out when it was updated, but I need to study it more, as it is not immediately reader-friendly.  So, I need to do a word-by word comparison to make sure that the documents are initally sync'ed.

Have you found your way to http://wiki.dothraki.org/index.php?title=Vocabulary&limit=500&action=history? I can see how it's not entirely reader friendly, but in theory the compare selected revisions system is quite spot on. Just compare the current with any old version and you'll see all the changes that have been made since.
That being said, I think the word-by-word comparison is still in the end worth the trouble.

Qvaak, I have found the comparison tools on the wiki, and used them. Where I am still a bit confused is how they are indicating the nature of the changes. A little bit of careful study at an earlier hour (instead of just before bedtime, like it is right now), and I should have this figured out.

And you are absolutely right. For a first pass, a word-by word comparison is definitely called for, with a careful check of all parts of the entry that can be compared. (Ultimately, I am hoping to add the necessary fields to the definition entries to allow the indication of the alternative/stem forms of a word so often encountered in the wiki.) An at least casual word-for word check is needed every six months or so just to ensure nothing has been missed, or has 'drifted'.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 01:02:05 am by ingsve »
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2011, 01:20:56 am »
If you have downloaded the dictionary in the past day or two, you may have noticed that some Na'vi has crept into the Dothraki dictionary, in the form of numbers. (A Na'vi-Dothraki dictionary will someday be developed  ::) )  Lajaki has been kind enough to set up numbers and proper noun sections to help make the dictionary easier to use. However, I will not be able to get around to properly populating these for a few days. So, please be patient while I work through a lot of stuff do I can have more time to learn Dothraki!
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: The Dictionary Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2011, 11:17:16 am »
Is the N'avi still there? :)