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What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

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Alizia:
M'athchomaroon !

I don't understand what melikheya and tikkheya means... "the patient's/instigator's half of the act". Have you some example to explain that ?

HoeriVezhof:

--- Quote from: Alizia on January 01, 2017, 09:37:21 am ---M'athchomaroon !

I don't understand what melikheya and tikkheya means... "the patient's/instigator's half of the act". Have you some example to explain that ?

--- End quote ---

They're linguistic terms having to do with grammatical agency. I believe they correspond with English patient and agent, respectively, maybe patient/agent+verb since tikkheya is also listed as meaning verb? An agent is a noun or noun phrase in a sentence that carries out the action while a patient is a noun or noun phrase that undergoes or receives a verb's action. e.g. "the boy hit the ball." "the boy" is the agent and "the ball" is the patient. Don't confuse agent with subject and patient with direct object, Even if we make the sentence passive ("the ball was hit by the boy") "the boy" is still the agent and "the ball" the patient. You can read a bit more about it on their wikipedia pages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_(grammar)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_(grammar)

Alizia:
Oh okay ! I understand ! Thanks a lot !

I have 3 last words that I don't understand the exact meaning :

What is the different between "ale" and "alikh" ? Why they don't be adverbs ?

What is "ammithrat" ? I can't imagine a sentence with this strange verb.

Khal_Qana:
Ammithrat = se reposer

Me ammithri mra okre mae = Elle se repose dans sa chambre

HoeriVezhof:

--- Quote from: Alizia on January 06, 2017, 04:21:32 pm ---What is the different between "ale" and "alikh" ? Why they don't be adverbs ?

--- End quote ---

Well, according to the dictionary, because one's a noun and the other is an adjective. :P No but seriously, it's just because that’s how Dothraki developed. Consider plus in French: it comes from latin adjective plus, which was used like any ol' adjective in the plural but required the following noun to be in the genitive in the singular:
Sunt plures feles hic. - There are more cats here. - Il y a plus de chats ici.
but
Est plus casei. - There is more (of the) cheese. - Il y a plus de fromage.

Plures and feles are both in the nominative plural in the first sentence, but in the second plus is in the nominative singular and caseum in the genitive singular. You can see how over time this little quirk in the singular spread to the plural.

As in French, adjectives in Latin could also stand alone, acting like nouns.
Ego volo plus (alicuius). - I want more (of something). - Je veux plus (de quelque chose).

You can already see how plus can start to be reanalyzed as an adverb. Eventually quantity and degree where conflated in Vulgar Latin, As plus + adj. started to replace the comparative and superlative.
Ego sum fortior quam is. > *Eo su plus forte qua illui. - I am braver than he is. - Je suis plus brave que lui.
Now we lop off that "qua illui" and we get:
Ego sum fortior. > Eo su plus forte. - I am braver. - je suis plus brave.
And thus plus became reanalyzed as an adverb in French with de taking the place of the lost genitive when used with nouns.


In terms of ale and alikh and their uses:
We know they're not used with adjectives, as Dothraki as the comparative and superlative for that.

Here's two examples of Dany using ale as an adjective with a noun:
Dany S6E6: Anha aqafak san ale yeroa ei Khaloon ray qaf khalasaroon mae! - I will ask more of you (or, a heap more from you) than any Khal has ever asked of his khalasar!

Dany S6E4: Hazi ale khadosoon. - That is more than most have.

In the first example you see ale being used like any other adjective to modify the noun. The same is true in the second, only it's in the predicate.

I think the most adverby form will be ale:
Anha acharak vos ale.

Alikh, meanwhile, acts as a dummy noun when the grammar requires it, similar to san + gen. and plus + gen. in Latin:
Drogo S1E7: Kisha vastoki vos alikh hrazefi ido m'adori shiqethi. - "Let us speak speak no more about wooden horses or iron chairs."
*Anha zalak mesine ale. - I want more soup. - Je veux plus de soupe.
*Anha zalak alikh. - I want more. - Je veux plus.
But they sometimes appear interchangeable,:
Drogo S1E8: Anha acharak vos ale. - I will hear no more.
Dany S2E5: Anha acharak vos alikh. - I will hear no more.
Drogo S2E10: ...ma anha zigerok nesat vos alikh. - …and I don't need to know more.

seeing as san is also treated as an adverb, I guess it makes sence alikh would be too. It's possible both forms can currently be used adverbially, and Dothraki will eventually settle on one or the other (because the Dothraki are totes real and GoT is a documentary series, right?), but who knows? (Well, David, David Peterson knows.)



--- Quote from: Choyosor on January 07, 2017, 01:59:54 pm ---Ammithrat = se reposer

Me ammithri mra okre mae = Elle se repose dans sa chambre

--- End quote ---

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, Choyosor; mithrat = se reposer, ammithrat = faire se reposer
Kisha eth ammithri ammithraki hrazef hatif dothrae adothraki alle. - Nous devons faire se reposer les chevaux avant de continuer à monter.

(pardon mon français, je ne suis pas locuteur natif. On doit dire "nous devons faire se reposer les chevaux," ou "nous devons faire les chevaux se reposer?" lequel sonne plus naturel?)

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