Messages

76

General Discussion / Re: Hebrew Dothraki

« on: January 12, 2017, 10:53:05 am »

The only differences were I used צ for ch, since Dothraki doesn't the phoneme /ts/ and [ts] and [tʃ] are two phones that are often approximates for each other across languages

Oh yeah, I forgot to use tzadei.
Ha!
In my first drafts of this I had used the tzadei for the /j/, but changed it later on for the prefered Dalet yod approach.  I'll actually change it so the /ch/ is represented by the /ts/ sound.

and ו for o and w since w is relatively rare in Dothraki and context will quickly clarify which phoneme ו represents in any given word.

Eh.  Since you could make the /o/ using vowel diacritics I think vav can be used for /w/ alone.

77

General Discussion / Hebrew Dothraki

« on: January 10, 2017, 09:20:22 pm »

Once again I return with a new transliteration, and this time I got a challenge for myself! Time to force the Hebrew alphabet into a tight and uncomfortable box:

א - A
צ - Ch
ד - D
אֶ - E
פ - F
ג - G
ה - H
ח - Kh
אִ - I
די - J
כ - K
ל - L
מ - M
נ - N
אֹ - O
ק - Q
ר - R
ס - S
ש - Sh
ט - T
ת - Th
ב - V
ו - W
י - Y
ז - Z
זי - Zh

Some notes on my choices:
-vowel diacritics were an absolute necessity for dothraki, especially since Dothraki has the /e/ vowel that hebrew does not.
-It may be a little confusing, Chet and Khaf represent two sounds in dothraki, even if they represent the same sounds in Hebrew.  The distinction of the two is made in the roman spelling, with Chet representing the /ch/ sound and Khaf representing the /kh/ sound
- The /J/ and /Zh/ are written with /Dalet+Yod/ and /Zayin+Yod/, Making a sort of 'Dy' and 'Zy' sounds if read out of context
-I chose not to be nit picky about what form some of the characters are in (especially with Mem, Nun, Tzadei and Khaf), so really any form you want can work in hebrew dothraki
-Tav is used for the /th/ sound, the same as some Sefardi, Chassidic and Yemen dialects
 

Example sentences:

Hello, my friends. How are you today?
מ'אתצאֹמאראֹאֹנ, אֹךאֶאֹסאִ אננאִ. האש יאֶראִ דותראאֶ צאֶכ?
My arakh will lay beside your arakh.
אראח אננאִ אמאִתרא אראחאִ שאפכאִ.

78

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 10, 2017, 12:57:37 pm »

Fourth story, Lajak Gorje ma zhavvorsa, is an adaptation of the famous Saint George and the Dragon.  I'm fairly certain this story is in public domain, so no worrying about copyright violation 


Lajak Gorje and the dragon

Once upon a time, there was a town on the edge of the Valyrian empire.  This town had a small lake with a plague-bearing Dragon living in it and poisoning the countryside.  To appease the dragon, the town’s people fed it two horses every day.  When they ran out of horses, they started feeding it their children, chosen by omen. One time, the khal's daughter was chosen to be eaten. The khal, in his grief, told the people they could have all his gold and silver and half of his kingdom if his daughter were spared, but the people refused.  The daughter was sent out to the lake, dressed as a bride, to be fed to the dragon.  However, Lajak Gorje, a brave Dothraki, rode past the lake and saw the princess.  The princess tried to send him away, but he vowed to remain. The dragon emerged from the lake while they were conversing, huge and hideous.  Lajak Gorje charged it on horseback, seriously wounding it with his arakh.  He then called to the princess to throw him her belt, and he put it around the dragon's neck.  When he did so, the dragon followed Lajak Gorje like a meek beast on a leash.  The princess and Lajak Gorje led the dragon back to the city, where it terrified the Valyrian people.  Gorje then killed the dragon, and the body was carted out of the city on four carts.  As a reward, Lajak Gorje was given the princess, and they rode off together to build their own khalasar. The khal built a temple to the Great Stallion and Lajak Gorje on the site where the dragon died, and a spring flowed from the lake with water that cured all disease.



Lajak Gorje ma zhavvorsa

[She kashi], Vaes vekhoon she Valiraki khalasar tith. Rek vaes mra qoroon toraza naqis ma zhavvorsoon athzhikhar thir mra mae ma izza rhaeshes.  Allayafat zhavvorse, voji vaesi azhish zhavvorsaan atak hrazef assekh ei.  Kash mori vo mra qora vosi hrazef, mori azhish maan yallisi mori; mori okkish yalli ki assikhqoyi.  At kashi, assikhqoyi okke khalakkies ha zhavvorsaan adakhat. Khal vaesi, mra athkhezhar mae, asto vojaan ma ast mori laz mra qora mas mae ei ma ohara mae, hash mori vijazerosh oharaes mae; Mori zajjish. Khalakki dothra torazaan, onde vos, majin zhavvorsa laz adakh mae.  Vosma, Lajak Gorje, Dothraki haj, dothra torazasi ma tih khalakkies.  Khalakki kis asso mae esemrasalat, vosma me akkelen vikovarerat.  Zhavvorsa yatho torazasoon kash mori vaster, me zhokwa ma vo lain.  Lajak Gorje gor mae, ild zhavvorse ma arakhoon mae.  Me asso khalakkies azhat maan im mae, ma me liwa mae oleth me torga lenti zhavvorsa.  Kash me et haz, zhavvorsa sille Lajak Gorje ven aresak.  Khalakki ma Lajak Gorje fichish zhavvorse vaesaan, ma jin rokh vojis.  Gorje drozh zhavvorse, ma dozgikh losh mra vaesoon ki tor rhaggati.  Voji azhish Lajak Gorjaan khalakkies m'athchomaroon, ma mori dothrash niyanqoy movelat khalasares mori.  Khal vaesi move vojjor ha Hrazef vezhvenaan ma Lajak Gorjaan she gach rekkoon zhavvorsa drivo, ma ashefa vitha ha torazasoon ma evethoon melaz kolae athzhikhar ei.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

79

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 10, 2017, 11:43:04 am »

I have a problem with starting stories, and I think I need a prepositional phrase at the head of a fable to smoothly flow into the story. It needs to be similar to once upon a time, but I don't want to directly translate that phrase.  I want to give it a more Dothraki feel to it (more mystic and foreign). I have a few ideas, and input into what you consider the best one is wanted:

From a time
Kashoon

Upon a time
She kashi

From before our time
Hatif kashoon kishi

Within this tale
Mr'athastozar

From when this tale was true
arrekoon jin athastozar tawakoon


An example sentence:

Once upon a time, there lived three little pigs.

"Kashoon, sen qifi thirish."
"She kashi, sen qifi thirish."
"Hatif kashoon kishi, sen qifi thirish."
"Mr'athastozar, sen qifi thira."* / "Mr'athastozar, sen qifi."**
"Arrekoon jin athastozar tawakoon, sen qifi thirish."

*Since the prepositional phrase admits that this is a story and was never true, the following sentence can be set in the present tense.

**When thinking about it, the sentence could be zero copula, but I think that there isn't enough information present to let the reader know what's going on.  When I look at the sentence, I see: "Within this story, three little pigs.", but that could just be my English speaking mind overriding my understanding of the zero copula.


Let me know what you think of all this.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

80

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 08, 2017, 08:05:49 pm »

My bad, guess I'm not used to conjugating the 1st person plural. I'm wondering where ammithrat came from since it's not in the dialog.

The fine folk who worked to compile the dictionary probably used pre-existing rules of root modification set by DJP to create a whole mess of words that aren't used in the show. I believe the show hasn't even used an eighth (maybe less) of what is in the dictionary.

Also, while that might work in this context, what if I wanted to say "we rested the horses before riding further."? You'd kind of have to say "Kisha ammithrish hrazef hatif adothraki alle." I suppose you could say "Kisha azhish hrazefaan mithrat hatif kisha adothraki alle.", but then thats longer than just using ammithrat, and if the word exists, it must be used, as odd as it may seem to us non-Dothraki speakers.

True.  I think Dothraki has the same problem as spanish, where words contain many syllables and aren't as efficient about carrying meaning.  This makes Dothraki speakers speak at a rather fast rate in order to carry a conversation at a normal interval of time.  I'm not the best at explaining what I'm talking about, so I'll let the paper explain for me:
http://ronnetsell.net/html/rate_of_speech_and_comms_effic.html

81

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 08, 2017, 11:13:30 am »

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, Choyosor; mithrat = se reposer, ammithrat = faire se reposer
Kisha eth ammithri hrazef hatif dothrae alle. - Nous devons faire se reposer les chevaux avant de continuer à monter.

Yeah you're probably right since you appear to know french better than I do (which is to say none at all).  I just looked up the definition of ammithrat, which has no distinction from mithrat in the dictionary, and found an example sentence in french online.  Triple translation is tough on a wee boy like me

Haha, Well that's two years of high school french, 4 years of Duolingo, and 22 years of speaking a related language gets you (mostly the knowing a related language thing)! Yeah, I think just to rest as a transitive verb is weird in English, though it is acceptable. "We should rest the horses" or "We should make the horses rest" sound odd (at least to me). "We should give the horses a rest," "We should let the horses rest" might be more idiomatic and natural-sounding translations (again, at least for my dialect of English).

Honestly, I wouldn't use ammithrat all that much since I have the Jussive instead. Using your example sentence, I would much prefer it to be structured as "Mithrates hrazef" or "Let the horses rest" than the needlessly long "Kisha eth ammrithi hrazef hatif dothrae alle".

82

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 08, 2017, 09:55:27 am »

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, Choyosor; mithrat = se reposer, ammithrat = faire se reposer
Kisha eth ammithri hrazef hatif dothrae alle. - Nous devons faire se reposer les chevaux avant de continuer à monter.

Yeah you're probably right since you appear to know french better than I do (which is to say none at all).  I just looked up the definition of ammithrat, which has no distinction from mithrat in the dictionary, and found an example sentence in french online.  Triple translation is tough on a wee boy like me

83

Introductions / Re: new and excited

« on: January 07, 2017, 10:15:50 pm »

Athchomar chomakaan! Good to see another enthusiastic member here on the forum! 

If you're looking for some good Dothraki learning sources, I suggest starting with the Dothraki Language Handbook, written by the creator of Dothraki, David J Peterson.  It goes over the basics of grammar and gives you a nice, comprehensive guide of how to make simple yet useful sentences.  After getting comfortable with conversation level Dothraki, you should move on to the Dothraki wiki and take notes on all the pages. It's all cataloged and laid out in a simple format and taking notes will be a breeze.  The wiki is the best source of grammar that you'll get for Dothraki, and is the easiest to access by far! 
Side note: Remember not to you memrise for grammar, since its only a source for memorizing vocab (I came very close to making that mistake when first learning Dothraki).

Also, the Dothraki dictionary app and pdf file (which you can find on the dictionary thread of this forum) to find the words that you want. They're incredibly helpful when writing anything down.

Other than that, I think you'll do well and I hope to see you stay on the forums!

Okeo shafki,

Choyosor

84

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 07, 2017, 01:59:54 pm »

Ammithrat = se reposer

Me ammithri mra okre mae = Elle se repose dans sa chambre

85

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 05, 2017, 09:44:20 am »

I have about 20 other stories to draft, write and translate so there will be updates in the future.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

86

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 05, 2017, 09:43:08 am »

The third and comedic fable of The Butterfly and the Flower.  I will expand on it more, but the moral of the story is that strength is better than beauty:

The Butterfly and the Flower
A butterfly and a flower get into an argument about who is prettier. “I have many colors,” says the flower, “and have a good smell. Unlike you, butterfly, who does not smell good.”
“foolish flower,” says the butterfly, “you have no eyes, and cannot see that I too have as many colors as you. And who needs to smell good when you can fly?”

“Well my beauty can be returned to and admired at any time, since I do not move.” Says the flower.

“I can come to you if you wish to see my beauty,” says the butterfly “So there’s no need to walk all the way to you to see your beauty.”

Just then, a Dothraki comes to end the arguing. He crushes the butterfly and eats the flower, for they are both weak.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

87

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 05, 2017, 09:40:43 am »

Second fable; How our ancestors became the Dothraki.  This one is a lot more of a brainstorm, and may interfere with future canonical lore, so I will leave that on the shelf so to speak until Winds of Winter is published (if ever).


How our ancestors became the Dothraki
All men know how to ride a horse, but only the Dothraki need the horse.  This is because the horse and the Dothraki share hearts.  Long ago, a village of men traded hearts with their horses, using a black knife to cut into their chest and remove their hearts, still beating, from their chests.  The heart of the Dothraki is that of a horse, and this makes them stronger and faster than all other men.
 

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

88

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 05, 2017, 09:38:31 am »

First draft of the first fable written; How Men Learned to Ride Horses. The second draft will also be in english, and the third and fourth will be written in Dothraki. I hope you enjoy what I have so far:

How men learned to ride horses
Long ago, no men knew how to ride horses.  Men simply walked and ran, and hunted the horse like the other animals.  Men were miserable, for their feet were always blistered and the world too crowded; since everyone couldn’t be outside of walking distance of one another. Horses mocked man, and spat at their feet as they galloped by. Horses, however, are much dumber than men, and are much easier to trick. In the village of men, the king gathered his strongest and fastest hunters together, and told them to capture the king of horses for him.  The hunters were obedient, and went to the land of horses dressed in mares’ skins.  When they found the king, a big black stallion that stood at twice the height of the men, they used ropes to trip him as he ran and lassoed him by the neck.  They returned to their king with the great stallion in hand, and the king appraised their efforts. Taking the ropes that held the king of horse, he lept upon its back to try to wrestle him to the dirt.  The stallion kicked and ran, but the king of men held on to the ropes around his neck.  The stallion ran out into the world, as fast as the dusts storms, and passed across lands in a few seconds. Through forest, desert, and across water, the stallion tried his best to lose his rider, but the king was too strong and stayed on the king of horses back. The king of horses became wearier and wearier, until he came to a stop beside a river and fell into a deep sleep.  While the stallion slept, the king of men took the grasses along the river and weaved a saddle for himself. He fitted the ropes inside the mouth of the horse, and took shells to cover the eyes of the stallion.  The king of horses woke, and was so flattered by the gifts the king of men had made, he swore to be a loyal servant for the rest of time.  The king rode the stallion back to the village victorious, and taught all the other men how to make the saddles and reigns for the horses to wear. Soon, all men knew to ride horses, and rode their new servants across the world.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

89

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread

« on: December 31, 2016, 01:49:13 pm »

Alright, I have a question regarding the root of two words:

Is there a connection between the verbs to slice/cut into(rissat) and to fix (arrissat)? If so, what semantics lead to this connection?

90

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread

« on: December 28, 2016, 09:27:25 pm »

It may have merely been a lost in translation moment, since Zhey Alizia hails from Frankland.