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Messages - HoeriVezhof

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Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Art of War Dothraki Translation
« on: June 04, 2017, 10:50:53 pm »
Woaf! I've been away a while! I'll have to take some time to look over the edits and fix my copy accordingly, but to answer some questions:

*What is the meaning of the word "vavvenat"?
Should be avvenat - to compare. I don't know why I added the extra v- in the text.

**I was unable to find meaning from "shafki mori asili shafka".
Ovvethikh mae’th vena shafki mori asili shafka - Their[the people's, referencing singular yanqosor] goals must be as yours [so that] they will follow you. The lack of a conjunction between the main clause and the subordinate clause [in the future tense to express purpose] does look odd to me, but that's how DJP said purpose is expressed so, there ya go. Also mori should be me to agree with yanqosor, my bad.

***What is the meaning of the word "ostirge"?
already answered, thank you, Zhav!

****I was unable to find meaning from "kash mra qora davrakh m'athmelisozar allayafi".
Esinaso ostirge kash mra qora davrakh m'athmelisozar allayafi. - Change [your] plan when [you] have the advantage[lit. "useful thing"] and the happenstance/occation/occurence [from melisolat] pleases[i.e. favors it, allows it, could use azhat instead, but personally I like allayafat]

*****I was unable to find meaning from "mra okre ta vilajer".
Fin vitihera san mra okre hatif ta vilajer anajaha. - [he] who ponders many times in his tent before doing battle will win. vilajero's accusative should probably be vilajere instead of vilajer, though. Could also probably exchange fin for rek

Like I said when I posted this, this was a ROUGH translation I had done like two days before posting, so it's no surprise there's a ton of errors! I also struggled with the text's POV, whether it should be written addressing a leader [using Shafka] or being more general, addressing the nation [using "we", kisha]. I settled on Shafka, treating the text as if it were a gift to a Khal personally translated.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: April 10, 2017, 06:46:33 pm »
Sekosshi! Anha ray'th lir san astosori haji clas lekhi espaniaki majin vo ray nithi tat eshna vekhikh.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Art of War Dothraki Translation
« on: April 10, 2017, 06:34:11 pm »
Hello, I don't check every word, but the first is vinesorat*

Oh yeah! For some reason I thought I had used the wrong derivational affixes and went back to "fix" it and added the extra -a. Thank you!

Dothraki Language Updates / The Art of War Dothraki Translation
« on: April 10, 2017, 03:23:47 pm »
Just a quick, rough translation of the first chapter of the Sun Tzu's the Art of War. Below are the words I had to derive in the order they appear. As always, please point out any errors, suggestions, etc. I used three different English translations, Lionel Giles', Thomas cleary, and the Shonshi Group's but follow no particular style.



Athvilajerar olda khalasar san. Me olda m'atthirar m'athdrivar. Me olda m'atthirar m'athdrivar. Me os che atthirozaraan che athohhararaan. Majin vitiheras mae. Majin vitiheras jin mek davrakh zana. Vineseras mora kash  yer akkeleni zigerekh yer anajahi. Mori mek: ma Os, ma chafasar, ma Gache, m'Akkelenak m'Athniqar. Akkelenas athhajar yeri she jini ma vavvenas mora athhajaraan dozgi.

   Os olda athfiezar vi yanqosor ma khal. Ovvethikh mae eth vena yeri mori asili yera ma m'atthirar m'athdrivar vo voldi mora akkate yomme athzhowakaroon.
   Chafasar olda m'ajjalanes m'asshekhes, m'athfishar m'athafazhar, ma kashe ma vigillosorer [seasons].
   Gache olda athhezhahar ma yatha ma zoha, ma hezhaha ma qisi, ma ovaha ma thifa; ma Gach fini ray nem jaz ma Gach disa, ma zhowaka ma sandi.
   Akkelenak olda m'athvillar ma shillikh m'atherinar m'atherokhar m'athniqezar. (che Akkelenak ma villa ma nem shilla ma erina ma erokhae ma niqa.)
   Athniqar olda m'athkelenar lajasari ki saccheyi jila, m'athkelenar khasari, m'athzanar osi fin nem fichi zigerekh lajasaraan meshes, m'athjavrathar athziradakhezari masi.

Ei ko ray char jin mek davrakh. Fin shila mora anajaha; fin vo shila mora anajaha vosecchi. Majin m'akkelenas m'avvenas athhajar yeri she jini athhajaraan dozgi m'akkelenas fin ahajana. Qafas: mra qora fini khali Os? Mra qora fini oakah? Finaan adavrani ma Chafasar ma Gach? Athniqar fini avezhvenana? Lajasar fini ahajana? Ma khasar ma lajaki fini ray lajish k'athadavrani? Fin m'azha qorasokh m'annitha k'athazanani? ki jini vitiherikhi Anha laz assik ma fin anajaha ma fin vohara.

Ko fin charoe athvillar anni ma addavrae mae anajaha sekosshi: aqqisi mae! Ko fin ma vo charoe athvillar anni ma vo addavrae mae, hazak vohara: eqorasa mae!Addavras assokh anni ma fonas davrakh fini koala avijazeri melikhoon vo nem tiha. Ovvahas ostirge kash ovrakh nem eza.

Athvilajerar os qosarvenikhi. Majin, Hash yer laz ildi, hash attihas meyer vo laz ildi; hash yer nithie, attihas meyer vo nithie; hash yer qisi, attihas meyer hezhahi; hash yer hezhahi,  attihas meyer qisi. Annithilas dozge ki ovrakhi ido. Iddos athekelenazar ma atthasas mae kash me navvirzethaya. Hash me samvena, hash hethkas moon. Hash me ahajana, hash zajjas lajat mae. Hash me safejasa, hash zireyeses mae. Hash me choma, hash annithilas mae esittesalat. Hash mra qora mae athdisizar, ahhaqas mae. Hash lajasar nem yanqo, sachas mae. Ildas finne me ehethkae, es finne me vos ayoli yera. Ki jini ostirgi yer anajahi, majin vos azhas dozgaan nesat mae.

Fin vitihera san mra okre hatif ta vilajer anajaha. Fin vitihera zolle mra okre vohara. San athvitiherari azh najahhey; loy athvitiherari azh vo najahhey; finsanney amelana vos athvitiherar? Anha vitiherak aranikh kijinosi majin anha assik ma fin anajaha ma fin vohara sekosshi.

addavralat - to make useful, to use
vitiherikh - ponderings, considerations
athniqar - rigidness, discipline
avvenat - to make similar, to compare
athfiezar - love, connection
athfishar - cold (n.)
athafazhar -heat (n.)
vigillosorero - season
shillikh - trust
atherinar - kindness, benevolence
atherokhar - fearlessness, bravery
athniqezar - rigidness, discipline
erokhalat - to be fearless, brave
niqat - to be rigid, disciplined
athkelenar - order
athzanar - steadyness, maintenance
athzigerezar - needs
athjavrathar  - reining in, control
athziradakhezari - devouring, expenditure (adakhat + pejorative)
k'athadavrani - with more usefulness, better
k'athazanani - with more stability, routinely
athmelisozaroon - situation, circumstance
iddolat - to make wooden, to feign
athekelenazar - disorder
safejasalat  - to be covered in hate, hateful; to be angry by nature
athvitiherari - pondering

Sorry for not getting to you sooner, been really busy. I don't know much Valyrian myself, but from what I've gathered this isn't Valyrian, it's gibberish the composer did that's meant to sound like Valyrian. Maybe someone more familiar with the language can confirm.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: April 09, 2017, 09:23:27 pm »
How has the translation been coming along? I know that both of us have not been too active on the forum for the past month or so.

Yeah, I haven't given it too much attention to be honest, been busy with school and other things. I did do a rough translation of the 1st chapter of the Art of War, though, I might post it later tonight. I'm thinking rather than doing a start-to-finish translation of the bible I might just do select passages for now, like the story of Noah, Moses, etc. shorter chunks are easier and more enjoyable to translate.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: February 26, 2017, 03:06:16 pm »
Haesh for generation seems intuitive to me.

Possibly, my concern is that since we only ever see haesh used in "Haesh Rakhi" to refer to the Lhazareens, and the Dothraki don't have the most positive or admirative attitude towards them,  I suspect theirs a derogatory connotation attached to haesh when refering to humans. Also I think haesh would better translate to "offspring" than "generation."

Beginners / Re: Dothraki transcripting
« on: February 21, 2017, 11:36:12 am »
This is what I understood:
Email, email
Fini jini?
Mori zali m'anha (a?)movek video haji Pragyam '17! Ugh
Anha vo nesok fin anha vastak vosecchi!
Hake anni David Peterson
M'anha lekhmovek
Anha move jin lekhes, zhey lekh dothraki
Anha movesok m'anha vastok hazi...
Vos, hazi (jikta?)
Anha nesak
Anha vastok hazvisi anni
Mori Ivezhveni
Me nem nesa

*edit: DJP confirmed "hazi jikta"  should be "hazi chitha" (mispronounced in the vid, which he hoped no one would notice, sorry David!)

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: February 20, 2017, 04:48:41 pm »
Genesis 7 Update:

Noah takes his family and seven of every clean animal, male and female, and two of every unclean animal, male and female. The water swells for 150 days.

Missing Vocabulary:
Gen 7:1 generation (a stage in genealogical succession and the period of time of such): athayyolar? < ayyolat + [nominalizer]
Gen 7:2 clean: fis < affisat[to clean] - [causative] = *fisat[to be clean] - [verbal marker]
Gen 7:2 unclean: efisa < *fis[clean] + [negative]
Gen 7:6 to flood (grow flooded): savevethasolat < eveth + [opertive "covered in X"] + [dynamic]
Gen 7:11 fountain, spring (a place where water emerges from the ground)
Gen 7:11 great deep: athaozarof < athaozar[deep, depths] + [augmentative]
Gen 7:11 to open (grow open): ovrasolat, inferred:  ovrakh[opening, the result of being open] - [resultive] > *ovrat[to be open] + [dynamic] > *ovrasolat
Gen 7:16 to shut in: ajjonat < jon[shut, closed] + [causative] + [verbal marker]
Gen 7:17 to swell: richolat < rich[bubble, swelling] +[dynamic] + [verbal marker]
Gen 7:19 mightily (with increasing intensity): k'athivezhofozari[with growing fierceness] < ivezhofolat[to grow fierce] + [nominalizer] + ki[adverbializing preposition]
Gen 7:21 swarm: rhosor < rhoa + [collective]

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread
« on: February 09, 2017, 03:52:19 pm »
Mumbled response
The equivalent of "uh-huh" and "nuh-uh" in many, many languages. Asi mra lekh Dothraki laz vekha ven "oho" ha sekaan, ma "o" ha vosaan.  The IPA would be similar to [˦˨ʔm.˨ʔm] and [˥˩ʔo] (it isn't exact due to this being a non-pulmonic sound)

I always figured that majin makes sense to serve as a filler word in conversation in the middle of two thoughts.
I think Choyosor is referring to a negative meaning "no" rather than a filler word like "um" or "uh."

Too long and unimpactful for a brief "f*ck!" moment; It's similar to saying "Gee willikers" or "Sacre bleu" in english/french. I think that "Grra" is far more satisfying, and condenses the explitive down to a nice, single-syllable statement.  I've used it before when talking to friends, as well as a few posts ago in the forum.
Graddakh doesn't seem to long to me, lots of language have multisyllabic curse words (spanish alone has joder! mierda! no mames! hijo de su (cingada/puta) madre! híjole! chingado! or chingao!, etc), English is actually the odd one that loves monosyllabic words ending in voiceless consonants (sh*t! f*ck! c*nt! d*ck! etc.). If I were to shorten graddakh, I'd prefere grakh!, preserving that nice velar fricative.

Too harsh for trying to calm a horse.  You want to avoid fricatives as much as possible since a big stress inducer for a horse is running into a snake, and making snake sounds is the last thing you want to do if you want to get your horse to stop moving.  I suggest making it a nasal or an approximant: "amma" or "awwa". Nice and calm.
For calming a baby you could use "affa", but

Too harsh? Fricatives are the most soothing (to me) sounds there are! I've never been around horses so I don't know how likely fricatives are to spook them, but seeing as [f] is a labio-dental and snakes have neither lips nor teeth, I doubt a horse would associate it with a snake.

Beginners / Re: High Valyrian for 'cheers'
« on: February 09, 2017, 03:20:52 pm »
Greetings all,
So I've been curious for a long time whether or not there's any Valyrian for 'cheers.' Seems like one of those really integral cultural aspects.

Can anyone help me out?
There is no entry in either the Valyrian nor Dothraki dictionary, so there likely isn't one yet in either language. If you REALLY want to know you could try asking David J. Peterson on Tumbler, people ask him "How do you say X in Y conlang" (usually Trigedasleng) all the time.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: February 05, 2017, 02:12:50 pm »
Hmm, so do you think ido can be used as both noun and adjective?

I believe it's a homonym. Ido originally meaning "wood", came to mean "fake". Same with tawak.
I like to imagine it did the same thing as "dumb" in english. Originally meaning you couldn't talk but came to mean stupid over time.
Ah, no, no I know ido has the second meaning of "fake," but it's primary meaning, according to the dictionary, is "wooden" (adj.) not "wood" (noun). I'm wondering if ido then is both adjective and noun, or just an adjective meaning "wooden; fake" (adj.) but not "wood" (noun).

sin - kemven
tan - frakh
cos - vi frakhaan

kemven = athhatifazzozar oleth athtorgajesari
vi frakhaan = athvekhizar oleth athtorgajesari
frakh = athhatifazzozar oleth athvekhizari
Haha, again, I think we need basic arthimatic terms like "to add," "plus,"  "to subtract," "minus" before talk about advanced geometry.

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread
« on: February 05, 2017, 02:00:06 pm »
I wonder if afflechat would be a good way to express breaking something, in the malfunction sense of the word. Arabic never uses the same word for "break" in these two contexts, of breaking a pot, i.e. it shatters to pieces, versus "breaking" a computer, i.e. rendering it inoperable.
Well there's at least one other example of this contrastive pairing of 2nd meanings (e.g. yolat to be born; (of the sun) to rise and drivolat to die; (of the sun) to set), could be (can you guys think of any others?). Two verbs are actually derivable from flech, the stative intransitive flecholat, to grow dull, to not function, to cease to function, (intr.) to break and the active transitive afflechat, to make dull, to cause to not function, (tr.)to break. It could also be that Dothraki just doesn't make that distinction and simply uses samvolat and assamvat. The Dothraki don't seem to have complex enough technology that would require that distinction. Spanish makes a similar distinction with the verb descomponerse, to rot, to decompose; to break down, to not function, to cease to function, and I'm having trouble thinking of any tech that the Dothraki have that I would use it with. Maybe a cart?

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread
« on: January 26, 2017, 08:19:58 pm »
Alright, I have a question regarding the root of two words:

Is there a connection between the verbs to slice/cut into(rissat) and to fix (arrissat)? If so, what semantics lead to this connection?

perhaps arrissat: to make cut > to make sharp > to make useful, make work (a dull arakh is a useless arakh, afterall) > to fix?

So, according to David J. Peterson, "Another [word] I thought worked well is the word for "to fix" or "to repair", which is arrissat. It's actually the causative of rissat, which means "to cut" or "to slice". Thus, to repair something is to "make it cut"—which is a good way of saying what needs to be done with a broken arakh."

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki
« on: January 26, 2017, 08:05:43 pm »
Asshekh anha nesok mevenak Valirakes ale Dothrakoon.

I was still confused by the structure of this so I went back to the wiki and checked it, and found that this is structured incorrectly.

The verb needs to be modified using the adjective comparison affixes, so "avenanat" would be used instead of "venat"...Valirak isn't in the accusative, and ale isn't used.
ah, yup, avenanat makes more sense. I put Valirak in the accusative because the dictionary says venat is a transitive verb, though I could see it being treated as a pseudo-copula and taking its object in the nominative.

Anha must be used twice. The Schrutean compound is too vague in this context.
It's not a Schrutean compound, me- is a subordinating prefix that always attaches to the first word in the subordinate clause. As for vagueness, as someone who speaks a pro-drop language, the context makes the meaning clear: m'avenanak is quite clearly a 1s verb in agreement with nesok, no pronoun necessary.

Asshekh anha nesok meanha avenanak Valirak, Dothrakoon.

But I don't really like how this is phrased in general and I think it can actual be made into a complex sentence by changing the wording:

Assekh anha ezak mevaliraki allayafi anna, ma Valiraki adavrani Dothrakoa.

At which a Dothrak would overhear your conversation and respond with, "Hiles yera, ziri"
Eh, that's not the same thing though. I'm not making a judgement-call on the Dothraki's view of life and slavery, quite the opposite; I'm try to subtly say that I'm cowardly like the Valyrians for preferring self-preservation over dignity, for preferring slavery to death. For that reason I still prefer Asshekh anha nesok m'avenanak Valirakes Dothrakoon.

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