The World of Westeros > HBO: Game of Thrones
Dothraki dialogue from the TV series.
Qvaak:
So... the language sounds wonderfully real (at least to my extremely unprofessional ear). Sometimes it might have a slightly over articulated feel, some other times a wee bit unnecessarily mumbled, but I think most of that is just in my head (or, at least, I wouldn't know the difference). Almost anything sounds fake if you try hard enough to listen if it sounds fake or not.
It's sad Dothraki might in practice lack a couple of harder to pronounce phonemes. If the language at the show has so much ambiguity that even a hypothetical fluent speaker couldn't navigate the sea of vague homophones, that's certanly a loss. It's also rather unideal - if also completely understandable - that people improvise dialogue changes and additions on a language they don't know. Isn't it a great tradition among TV series to brutalise foreign languages - the few times we actually get to hear or read them?
I like it that Jorah seems to speak the language a bit awkwardly. I view Jorah as a guy who is content when he's understood, while Daenerys certainly wants to be integrated. I wouldn't be surprised if Dany would soon be more fluent than the knight. I also like it that pillow talk is pretty much just a grunt and mumbling to oneself while watching a fight is a bloody untranslatable mystery.
--- Quote ----Rakharo: Chiftik Cricket
--- End quote ---
How should this be understood? Mild swear word? Insult to Viserys?
--- Quote ---The final added expression "Hash tih?" does not make sense. It was added by the production in the belief that it means "Do you?". It instead means something like "Do eyes?"
--- End quote ---
I bet David Peterson has at least some ideas on how the grammar typically deteriorates in informal and lax (or tense?) situations, and if he says it doesn't easily fit, then it doesn't, but for all I know Hash tih? doesn't seem particulary strange. Dothraki don't seem too keen on keeping verbs in every sentence, no copula and all, so it might be just rough version of Are there eyes?, or it might be just their way of emphasizing a word, something like Eyes, yo?.
ingsve:
--- Quote from: Qvaak on May 13, 2011, 05:35:46 pm ---
--- Quote ----Rakharo: Chiftik Cricket
--- End quote ---
How should this be understood? Mild swear word? Insult to Viserys?
--- End quote ---
It's an insult directed at Viserys.
As for the final Hash tih?, David at least agreed that it does sound cool the way it's said.
Qvaak:
Woo! The dialogue is becoming much more understandable. So some new thoughts:
Meme really is a word that means nearly exactly it-it! Just like in english you can say things like I thought that that horse liked apples. Well, I don't know if that really is that grammatically correct example, but still. You get the idea. ..You probably already had it.
And if I'm not mistaken both preposition ma, with and prefix me, that (clause introduction) are cut into elided version m' when the word they precede starts with a vowel.
When Jorah and Rakharo talk about their fathers, there is no explicit indication in Dothraki sentences (none that I can see, that is) about them being about the past.
- I've heard that your father a famous warrior.
- He a bloodrider under Khal Bharbo.
- And your father, Jorah the Andal? He a warrior also?
I wouldn't say Jorah's response, He still is, wouldn't fit, but it is quite a different answer.
ingsve:
--- Quote from: Qvaak on May 21, 2011, 10:04:39 am ---Woo! The dialogue is becoming much more understandable. So some new thoughts:
Meme really is a word that means nearly exactly it-it! Just like in english you can say things like I thought that that horse liked apples. Well, I don't know if that really is that grammatically correct example, but still. You get the idea. ..You probably already had it.
And if I'm not mistaken both preposition ma, with and prefix me, that (clause introduction) are cut into elided version m' when the word they precede starts with a vowel.
When Jorah and Rakharo talk about their fathers, there is no explicit indication in Dothraki sentences (none that I can see, that is) about them being about the past.
- I've heard that your father a famous warrior.
- He a bloodrider under Khal Bharbo.
- And your father, Jorah the Andal? He a warrior also?
I wouldn't say Jorah's response, He still is, wouldn't fit, but it is quite a different answer.
--- End quote ---
The word meme looks strange since the complementizer me is the same as the pronoun me. Meme translates as that.he or that.she or that.it. Your english example with that that horse is not exactly the same. You have added an extra that there. "...that that horse..." would be rek mehrazef in Dothraki I think.
Yes, both me and ma elides as m' so it might get a little confusing at times but since ma assigns the ablative case you can often make it out that way.
Well, if you look at those sentences you'll see that lajakoon and dothrakhqoyoon is in the ablative case without some reason for it. My guess is that a bare ablative indicates the past as a way of getting around not using a copula.
Qvaak:
--- Quote from: ingsve on May 21, 2011, 10:44:25 am ---
--- Quote from: Qvaak on May 21, 2011, 10:04:39 am ---Meme really is a word that means nearly exactly it-it! Just like in english you can say things like I thought that that horse liked apples. Well, I don't know if that really is that grammatically correct example, but still. You get the idea. ..You probably already had it.
--- End quote ---
The word meme looks strange since the complementizer me is the same as the pronoun me. Meme translates as that.he or that.she or that.it. Your english example with that that horse is not exactly the same. You have added an extra that there. "...that that horse..." would be rek mehrazef in Dothraki I think.
--- End quote ---
Ah yes. A better example would have been something like "I thought that that was the end." What I tried to say is: I think complementizer like that isn't accidentally also a pronoun. They refer to their clause: I thought -that->[that was the end.] And because they are presumably often pronouns and are often followed by pronouns, they often introduce hilarious repetition.
I could be very very wrong both in my analysis in english and in assuming complementizer prefix me to be directly linked with a pronoun me. But ploughing on the path I chose, it's a bit of a challenge to get a good grip on why the complementizer is a prefix instead of a separate word. The best answer might be "Because languages do crazy stupid stuff for no good reason," but I think there might be more rewarding answers. And it might have something to do with why the prefix is me.
Khaleesi zala meme adakha esinakh ajjalan.
translates rougly as Khaleesi wants that she eats different tonight.
that refers to the whole thought she eats different tonight. It's like a short hand to ...a certain thing which happens to be...
It's hard to see prefixed me refering straight to the whole thought the same way english that does. It seems more like a shorthand to ...something for a certain person who happens to be...
So maybe a more faithful rough translation would be
Khaleesi wants for her to eat different tonight.
ugh. Requires some more thinking, I think.
--- Quote ---Well, if you look at those sentences you'll see that lajakoon and dothrakhqoyoon is in the ablative case without some reason for it. My guess is that a bare ablative indicates the past as a way of getting around not using a copula.
--- End quote ---
Cool! Sounds like a good guess. Ablative would introduce a background-mode. That makes a lot of sense. Anha tokik - I'm a fool; Anha tokikoon - I've been a fool.
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