Messages

61

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 23, 2017, 01:26:05 pm »

Dothraki Heirarchy:

The dothraki have a vague, but noticable structure of power within the khalasar.  Though respecting these roles are a large component of Dothraki culture, titles and positions can easily change based upon the condition of those in charge, and placement is constantly shifting based upon the strength of the individual. The basic structure is as follows:

Khal- the commander of the whole khalasar. Makes decisions for the khalasar and acts as figure head.  Position can be inhereted through birth, but if the descendant shows to be weak a stronger dothraki can kill the child and take the khalasar for themselves (often times this is done by a ko of the khal).

Ko- A bloodrider of the khal. Personal friend, adviser and sub commander for the khal, often holding great prestige in the khalasar and in other dothraki hordes. Sometimes shares the wife of the khal, but only at the khal's consent.  They act as khas as well, and lead the khalasar into battle with the khal.

Khaleesi- Main wife of the khal. Often married to a khal as a political agreement between two khalasars. No real power within the khalasar, but are still respected as an important figure in the horde; garners the same respect as a ko, but not the influence. A khal can give a khaleesi power to act as an intimate advisor, but this is a very rare occurence and has only been once formally documented with the marriage of Danaerys Targaryen and Khal Drogo.  When the khal dies, the khaleesi retires to Vaes Dothrak, where she becomes a khaleen and governs the city and religion of the Dothraki alongside other khaleen.

Kha- a general in the khalasar. They command subdivisions of the khalasar, but only by proxy. They do not give advise or input to the khal, but only carry actions on his behalf.

Khalakka/khalakki- Son or daughter of the khal. Respected in the same way as their mother, and given about as much power. Khalakka, if proven to not be a chiftik, will take their father's throne.  Daughters will either be married to a Ko or a khal from another khalasar.

Akkelenak- A well respected commander within the khalasar. Does not attend Dosh khasi, but just relays information to the khalasar second hand from the khas.

Lajak- An informal leader among men in the khalasar; a ring leader of sorts.  They usually gain notoriety through fame in battle. Lajak Can overthrow an akkelenak and take their title if they prove themselves to be stronger than them.

Awazak- Brutal warriors in the horde. Similar to the "beserker" stereotype on viking ships. No real power or authority, but still respected.

Dothrak- The basic warrior. Trained in all types of warfare and brutality.

Women and children- there to either give birth or train for adulthood.

Koalak/koalakhtihan/koalakeesi- Healers for the khalasar.  Almost often a slave taken from some city.

Movek- craftsman for the dothraki. Slaves given to the khalasar that are seen as "valuable" due to a trade that they specialize in. Often times the slave is a weapon maker, animal caretaker or entertainer

Zafra- Slaves. They are taken by the dothraki in raids to serve them, either by doing lowly jobs, perform sexual acts for warriors, or just to be given to the free cities by the dothraki. Lowest position in the khalasar


Khalasar unit sizes

Khalasar "a king's collection"- 25,000-50,000 dothraki. Commanded by the Khal.
Zirisisir "a collection of segments"- 5,000-15,000 dothraki. Commanded by a Ko.
Lajasar "a collection of fighters"- 2,000-4,000 dothraki. Commanded by a Kha.
Asar "a collection of commands"- 100-500 dothraki. Commanded by an Akkelenak.
Kemasar "a collection of connections"- 25-50 dothraki. informally lead by a Lajak


Dothraki pantheon

Vezhven- the all powerful and all present god of the Dothraki.  Creator of the world and ruler of the universe. He leads his great khalasar through the nightlands as he governs the events, omens and fate of the day and night. Greatest and most powerful god of all the world.

Shekh- the ko of Vezhven and a major deity of the Dothraki. Sees over the events of the day and represents the spirit of men. Is responsible for fire, war and exhilliration. Husband of the moon.

Jalan- the kha of Vezhven and a major deity of the Dothraki. Sees over the events of the day and represents the spirit of women. Is responsible for water, healing and companionship. Wife of the sun.

Vezh fini asaja rhaesheseres- the warrior that will unit all the dothraki and conquer the world. Will become a major deity when they succeed in world domination.

Chinshi- the eldest child of Shekh and Jalan.  She is a minor deity and is the spirit of sex, love and physical pleasure. Often appears as female, but in some stories (often told to a group of girls) Chinshi is male. Defining characteristics include lusty, vengeful, beautiful, and emotional.

Rhakko- the second child of Shekh and Jalan. He is a minor deity and is the spirit of hunting, war and victory.  Always appears as a male lion, with a great, white mane.  Defining characteristics include respected, wrathful, hubris and elegant.

Jiwa- the youngest child of Shekh and Jalan. Jiwa is a minor deity and is the spirit of trickery and joy.  Never specified as male or female, but just described as a fox that stands upright and has human hands.  Defining characteristics include sneaky, jovial, malicious and clever.

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

62

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 23, 2017, 08:54:26 am »

More bad news:

My laptop is going to be a $400 fix and a three week wait  .  This is a huge bummer and stint to my school and hobbies.  The project is going to be on hiatus for a lot longer than expected, and until then I'm just going to be researching pre-established Dothraki lore, incorporating the lore to my notes, expanding on the three stories I have rough drafts for, and translating said stories. No new content can be added, just revising of what I have so far.
Hajas!

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

63

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Dictionary Thread

« on: January 23, 2017, 08:41:16 am »

I think that shortening/modification interjections in the language is a nessecity.  Expressing rage, confirmation and quick commands are too long and too formal for what they intend to express.  As well as this, common interjections in language are missing from the language. These are my suggestions:

Graddakh
Too long and unimpactful for a brief "f*ck!" moment; It's similar to saying "Gee willikers" or "Sacre bleu" in english/french. I think that "Grra" is far more satisfying, and condenses the explitive down to a nice, single-syllable statement.  I've used it before when talking to friends, as well as a few posts ago in the forum.

Ai
Not overly complicated like graddakh, but it still feels weird coming out of the mouth. I suggest just making it the diphthong "Ay", making it similar to the "Aye" of oler english dialects or the japanese "Hai".  It could also double as an "okay" word of general confirmation.

Affa
Too harsh for trying to calm a horse.  You want to avoid fricatives as much as possible since a big stress inducer for a horse is running into a snake, and making snake sounds is the last thing you want to do if you want to get your horse to stop moving.  I suggest making it a nasal or an approximant: "amma" or "awwa". Nice and calm.
For calming a baby you could use "affa", but

Mumbled response
The equivalent of "uh-huh" and "nuh-uh" in many, many languages. Asi mra lekh Dothraki laz vekha ven "oho" ha sekaan, ma "o" ha vosaan.  The IPA would be similar to [˦˨ʔm.˨ʔm] and [˥˩ʔo] (it isn't exact due to this being a non-pulmonic sound)

64

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 19, 2017, 08:41:10 am »

High Priestess S6E4: Kisha assilaki yanqosores, kisha qoraki chiories adavranazi, mori ayyoe yal kishaan.
We conquer a people, we take the best women, they bear us children.
And in pg. 89 of Living Language: Dothraki it is listed as i.n., class B. So yalle should be inanimate and the PDF and app are wrong, so rules the Supreme Court!

Grra! I demand secession from the union!

65

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 19, 2017, 08:21:12 am »

I still have no idea what you're saying with that

66

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 18, 2017, 07:58:50 pm »

Fini 'mevenak'?

67

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 17, 2017, 07:39:09 am »

Not sure, but I'm inclined to keep the adjective as close to the noun it modifies as possible, rather than separating it with another noun.

Fair enough.

Qisi rek vaes - near that city. Just realized the preposition definition of qisi is only given as "about, concering," but I image its more literal meaning is near, around, by, but that's a guess so yeah.

I figured it was unessecary since you also had "vaes vekh tozarasi", which would tell you that the lake exists beside the lake.  It would seem a bit redundant to say "Near the town existed beside the lake".

Although I'm not sure if "thirat" can be used to mean "to live" as in "to reside in, to inhabit."

DJP seems fluid with his use of "thirat", meaning both 'life' and 'to survive'. I'm sure it's fine.

Allayafat is in the 3s future because that's how you form purpose clauses in Dothraki, so "Yanqosor vaesi azh zhavvorsaan atak hrazef ei asshekh vallayafa mae." The people of the city gave the dragon one horse every day to please him." I just asked David Peterson about this two days ago on twitter, I'll be sure to post about this and link the tweets under the post I did about expressing purpose.

That may explain it  .  I guess if it's from the horses mouth I shouldn't question it.

Well according to the wiki vocabulary page it's inanimate. If you're using the PDF, maybe there's a discrepancy between PDF and site?

Both the PDF and the mobile app have 'yalli' as an animate noun.  I guess by U.S. constitution rules, two thirds overrides the executive.

though it doesn't make sense to me why he would want his daughter spared just to give her away. I think the Dothraki would prefer to be eaten by a dragon than be made slaves.

Khal ma khalakki vo Dothraki, mori Valiraki. Valiraki chiftie, ma vokki athzafrazares oleth athdrivari.

Right, but isn't Dothraki just the plural of dothrak? Peoples all over the world refer to themselves by such descriptors. Dothrak may mean "rider," but its also used to refer to anyone of the Dothraki people, just like Mongol is believe to come from an adjective meaning "brave" and the Aztecs called themselves "nahuah" meaning "those who speak with a clear and pleasant sound."

I'm not exactly sure then. I guess if there's a real life example of this then we should go with that for the sake of realism. However, I think an compromise could be made by distinguishing ideas based on spelling/capitalization:
dothra- root word for the concept of 'riding'
dothrak- title for a rider
dothraki- the group of people
Dothraki- the language itself

Also, I just realized, shouldn't his name be Jorj or Georgios depending on where you're borrowing it from, English or Greek/Latin?

My logic was that the same reason why latin/greek loan words in english are a bastardization in spelling and pronunciation, the same goes for the name George in Dothraki. I guess I was trying to make the name more masculine and strong sounding with that nice, strong velar plosive at the beginning. Jorj too western of a name and too "prissy" (a dothraki perspective. Not mine!) for the protagonist of a Dothraki story.  It may also be fluid in pronunciation based on region.


(almost) Final results:

She kashi, Vaesi vekh she rhaesh tith Valiraki. Qisi rek vaes vekh tozarasi naqisa ma zhavvorsoon, fin fich athzhikhar, thir rekke m'izze rhaeshes. Yanqosor vaesi azh zhavvorsaan atak hrazef ei asshekh vallayafa mae.  Kash me vo mra qora hrazef ale, me azh maan yallisis mae; me okke yalle ki assikhqoyi. Majin at kashi, assikhqoyi okke khalakkies vadakha ki zhavvorsi. Khal vaesi haji athkhezharoon mae, asto yanqosoraan m'ast mehash me avijazeroe oharaes mae zhorre, hash me laz aqorasoe ei mas mae ma ohara mae; Vosma me zajje. Khalakki dothra tozaraan, onde vos nem vadakha ki zhavvorsi.  Vosma, lajak Gorj, dothrak haj, dothra tozarasi ma tih khalakkies.  Khalakki kis asso mae esemrasalat, vosma me akkelen vikovarerat.  Zhavvorsa yatho mra tozarasoon kash mori vaster, me zhokwa ma vo lain vosso.  Lajak Gorj gor mae, ild zhavvors ma arakhoon mae.  M'asso khalakkies ovvethat maan ime mae, majin me liwa zhavvors oleth me torga lenti zhavvorsoon.  Kash me et haz, zhavvorsa sil lajakes Gorj ven aresak.  Khalakki ma lajak Gorj fichish zhavvors vaesaan, ma jin arrokh yanqosores. Gorj oge zhavvors, ma dozgikh nem losh mra vaesoon ki tor rhaggati. Yanqosor azh lajakaan Gorj khalakkies mr'athchomaroon, ma mori dothrash niyanqoy amari khalasar mori ma aqora rhaeshes mori zhorre.  Khal vaesi move okrenegwinvojjoran ma ha Vezhofaan ma ha lajakaan Gorj she gach finne zhavvorsa drivo, m'ashefa vitha ha tozarasoon m'evethoon fini laz kolae ei athzhikhar.

P.S.
I forgot to ask about the use of "nem" in the phrase "onde vos nem vadakha ki zhavvorsi".  I guess I'm just unclear of the use of "nem" in general, so an explanation would be appreciated.

68

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 16, 2017, 10:21:40 pm »

She kashi, Vaesi vekh she rhaesh tith Valiraki. Qisi rek vaes vekh tozarasi naqisa ma zhavvorsoon, fin fich athzhikhar, thir memras (rekke?) m'izze rhaeshes. Yanqosor vaesi azh zhavvorsaan atak hrazef ei asshekh vallayafa (allayafat) mae.  Kash me vo mra qora hrazef ale, me azh maan yallisis mae; me okke yalle ki assikhqoyi. Majin at kashi (Anha vo nesok. Anha za mae disat), assikhqoyi okke khalakkies vadakha zhavvorsa mae ki zhavvorsi. Khal vaesi haji athkhezharoon mae, asto yanqosoraan m'ast mehash me avijazeroe oharaes mae zhorre, hash me laz aqorasoe m'ei mas mae m'ei vizhad ma sachi rhaeshi mae; Vosma me zajje. Khalakki dothra tozaraan, onde vos nem vadakha ki zhavvorsi.  Vosma, Lajak Gorj, Dothraki haj, dothra tozarasi ma tih khalakkies.  Khalakki kis asso mae esemrasalat, vosma me akkelen vikovarerat.  Zhavvorsa yatho mra tozarasoon kash mori vaster, me zhokwa ma vo lain vosso.  Lajak Gorj gor mae, ild zhavvors ma arakhoon mae.  M'asso khalakkies ovvethat maan ime mae, majin me liwa mae zhavvors oleth me torga lenti zhavvorsoon.  Kash me et haz, zhavvorsa sil Lajakes Gorj ven aresak (che filkay)(che Kash me et haz, Gorj javrath zhavvorsa ven enosh).  Khalakki ma Lajak Gorj fichish zhavvors vaesaan, ma jin arrokh yanqosores.  (Majin) Gorj oge zhavvors, ma dozgikh nem losh mra vaesoon ki tor rhaggati. Yanqosor azh Lajakaan Gorj khalakkies m'athchomaroon, ma mori dothrash niyanqoy amari vaes khalasar (vineseri, zhey Gorj Dothraki, ma me mra qora khalasares) mori ma aqora rhaeshes mori zhorre.  Khal vaesi move okrenegwinvojjoran ma ha Vezhofaan ma ha Lajakaan Gorj she gach finne zhavvorsa drivo, m'ashefa vitha ha tozarasoon m'evethoon fini laz kolae ei athzhikhar.

I used vekh as a zero copula for some reason, even though vekhat is already a verb  .

Is there a specific adjective order for Dothraki? If there isn't, then I prefer to have tith at the end of the descriptors; it seems to fit the flow better.

Why do you use Qisi?

Why did you put naqis in a verb form when it is simply describing the size of the lake, and not being stated?

What is memras and can it be replaced with rekke?

Why is allayafat in 3rd person sng. future tense?

Yalli is an animate noun, so the plural accusative /-(s)is/ would be applied.

Mas is just valuables, and would include silver.

Why did you change it to "half of his kingdom" instead of keeping the original "ohara" prize? The Dothraki aren't exactly known for their feminist views, so this change seems pointless to me.

Dothraki is the race of people, not a descriptor of what zhey Gorj does.  Besides, he was just established as a lajak and not a dothrak.

Could you explain what you meant with the "Che filkay" section in parenthesis?

Also, the confusion with tozara and toraza was just a typo.  For some reason my brain remembered it as the latter (better flow, I guess?)

Other than those notes, I'm very grateful for the time you put in to editing that. Haji!

69

General Discussion / plqaD Dothraki

« on: January 16, 2017, 03:22:35 pm »

Time for transliteration from conlang to conlang! Today I use the klingon alphabet and adapt it into to the sounds of Dothraki. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a decent online keyboard for plqaD, so the romanization will be used in place of the orthography.

a - A
ch - Ch
D - D
e - E
p - F
ng - G
H - H
I - I
j - J
q - K
H' - Kh
l - L
m - M
n - N
o - O
Q - Q
r - R
S - S
S' - Sh
t - T
tlh - Th
v - V
w - W
y - Y
gh - Z
gh'- Zh

Foot notes:
-p is used for the /f/ sound because the klingon p is actually a bilabial affricate and contains a similar /f/ sound at the end of it
-ng is used for the /g/ sound because both are voiced sounds produced from the velar region
-the ' is often used as a modifier of a symbol, and not necessarily the glottal stop itself (similar to yod used in the last transliteration, or h in english). It effects H, S, and gh, and makes the /kh/,/sh/, and /zh/ sounds
-tlh is used for the /th/ sound because both are represented with a "t" heading in their romanized forms
-gh is used for the /z/ sound for the sole reason of that they are both voiced fricatives

Example:

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Avvirsae id ha mahrazhaan, ma me vafazhie vi asshekhaan. Avvirsae mahrazhes, ma me vafazhie vi athiraraan moon ei.
avvIrSae ID Ha maHragh'aan, ma me vapagh'Ie vI aSS'eH'aan.  avvIrsae maHragh'eS,  ma me vapagh'Ie vI atlhIraraan moon eI.

70

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 16, 2017, 01:22:12 pm »

Drogo S1E8: "Anha vazhok khadoes yeroon virsalat." - "I will not allow your body to be burned."
Dany S1E8: :"Azhas maan affisat zis yeri..." - "let her clean your wound..."

Well the infinitive works in this sentence simply as its basic function and not in an idiomatic way. Translated directly to english it reads as "I will not give your body to burn." and "Give to her to clean your wounds.".  Both of the infinitives work as the infinitive should, which is to compliment or modify the other verb used in the phrase (the non-infinitive verbs being "vazhok" and "azhas"). 

It's just an idiomatic use of azhat like the use of to have to express obligation in English. "I have to eat" makes no literal sense, how can you possess a "to eat"?

the "to" in the sentence is not related to the verb "to eat". It is apart of the auxillary verb "have to", which is a synonym of the other auxillary verb "must".  The sentence given wouldn't translate to "Anha mra qora adakhat"; it would translate to "Anha'th adakhak".

The only idiom in those lines of dialogue is "Azhas maan", which would tranlsate to "Allow her".  Coincidentally, this could also be expressed using the Jussive (but is significantly muddier), which would be "Affisates me zis yeri".

71

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 16, 2017, 12:11:07 pm »

New google docs

While I wait for my laptop to return, I think I'll just give a link to a new google doc where all of the stories I have so far are laid out and updated in real time. Once I have access to my laptop again, I'll do the work on the word document and make the changes to the google doc.  You can view and make comments on the google doc if you so please.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eOVPDS1NNw2dr83ZEG7a6CGggZMTxs37MV5ewgred-s/edit?usp=sharing


Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

72

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: The Atlas of the Dothraki

« on: January 16, 2017, 10:20:04 am »

Bad news/ update:

Well clumsy me managed to break my new laptop while under a double layer of cushioning, so the writing of my drafts will be postponed until I get the screen fixed.  Once I have the story drafts written I'll move on to fleshing out the history and culture.

As of right now I have a plan of attack laid out. I haven't given myself duedates because I have to focus on school above anything else, but here's what I have planned so far:

• Write the rough drafts of the fables
• Write the rough drafts of the culture
• Write the rough drafts of the history
• Write the rough drafts of the miscellaneous information
• Fact check fables
• Fact check culture
• Fact check history
• Fact check misc info
• Second draft fables
• Second draft culture, history, and misc info
• Rough draft translation
• Second draft translation; peer edit
• Final draft translation
• Final draft fables etc.
• Rough drawings of diagrams
• Rough drawings of illistrations
• Cleaner concept illistrations and diagrams
• Possibly have concept drawings professionally finished (optional;unlikely)
• Pencil in drafts to book
• Pencil drawings into book
• Final drafts inked, colored and cleaned up
• Final product either saved as keepsake, or given in a sweepstake on this forum or r/conlangs

That's all for now.  I will keep you all updated as soon as progress is made! 

Disclaimer: All of this content is fan made material and does not claim to be apart of the canon universe established in the Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire franchise.  The work here will not be published or sold for monetary gain, and thus does not violate any of the copyright claims and trademarks that HBO, Bantam Books, or any other company have in the franchise.

73

Beginners / Re: Memrise : Dothraki - French/Français & complete vocabulary excell file

« on: January 16, 2017, 09:45:08 am »

Fantastique effort et beau travail!

74

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 12, 2017, 06:28:24 pm »

Very good point.

My only problem comes with translation.  In all but the last sentence you used the wrong form of "rest". It would be athmithar and not the infinitive; "We should/must give to the horses a rest" rather than, "We should/must give to the horses to rest".

75

Beginners / Re: What the hell is melikheya/tikkheya ?

« on: January 12, 2017, 11:08:22 am »

It's not the same meaning. "Mithrates hrazef" is practically a command and "Kisha eth ammithraki hrazef hatif adothraki alle" is a simple observation. I think, in a current language, we will just say "Kisha eth ammithraki hrazef.", "hatif adothraki alle" isn't necessary to understand.

Yeah, I think since to let is used for both the jussive and to mean laisser, permettre in English, mixing the two uses up is a simple mistake I image we Anglophones are susceptible to make even if we're aware of the distinction.

My use of Mithrates hrazef was used only in the framework of that sentence.  I don't think it can always replace the use of verbs like ammithrat, but in that sentence you could.
It's also interesting that you view one of those sentences as an imperative and the other indicative. Hoerivezhof, do you view the Jussive as a command? I see it more as a subjunctive or a suggestion the same way that "We should have the horses rest" is one.  It may be how our native languages are structured that we're (or at the very least I am) making assumptions about how Dothraki works.

Anglophones

Haz ase allayafa anna  . Me mema ven "Anglophile", m'anha anglophile.