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The Lords Prayer thread
Hrakkar:
--- Quote from: Niqqo on March 26, 2012, 09:06:37 pm ---Well wouldn't Chomo be the formal imperative? Giving us "be honored!". I think that's quite close.
From here I'm a little bit lost. Do we have a word for "daily"?
--- End quote ---
Its reasonable, as the use in the prayer is kind of past-tensish, anyway.
Keep up the good work!
Najahho:
--- Quote from: Hrakkar on March 27, 2012, 01:54:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: Niqqo on March 26, 2012, 09:06:37 pm ---Well wouldn't Chomo be the formal imperative? Giving us "be honored!". I think that's quite close.
From here I'm a little bit lost. Do we have a word for "daily"?
--- End quote ---
Its reasonable, as the use in the prayer is kind of past-tensish, anyway.
Keep up the good work!
--- End quote ---
But it's actually a formal imperative.
Qvaak:
--- Quote ---Well wouldn't Chomo be the formal imperative? Giving us "be honored!". I think that's quite close.
--- End quote ---
Well, kinda, but not really. I had to check the formal imperative myself, to be clear on this, but this is how it goes: for consonant ending stems /-i/, nothing to vowel ending. In negative grade the /-i/ or otherwise the final vowel of the stem changes to o. So for chomolat 'chomo' would be a correct formal imperative, but I don't think that was what you were going for. For chomat 'vos chomo' would be a correct negative formal imperative. That wasn't what you were going for either.
What we can learn from here, though, is that the verb suffixes in Dothraki aren't very good at making the verb conjugation clear. There are a lot of same suffixes used for different things, and syntax and noun cases play a huge role in further clarifying the way of verbing. Imperative sentences don't carry subjects. That's how we recognize them (well, informal imperative carries an unique suffix, but the formal one really needs to have the correct syntax). There's probably no grammatically correct way to use the regular imperative (formal or informal) with any other person than the second. The use of passivizing particle nem is intriguing, but probably no particles (except vos) can be used either, and I'm not sure, how it would parse, exaclty.
I asked mr. Peterson about impersonal commands, and it seems I happened to be right: "Vichomerates hake shafki." really is a syntactically sound way to express the sentence. There were only a vaque hints pointing to this before, but I'll try to update the Wiki now that we know.
Najahho:
--- Quote from: Qvaak on March 28, 2012, 03:59:11 pm ---
--- Quote ---Well wouldn't Chomo be the formal imperative? Giving us "be honored!". I think that's quite close.
--- End quote ---
Well, kinda, but not really. I had to check the formal imperative myself, to be clear on this, but this is how it goes: for consonant ending stems /-i/, nothing to vowel ending. In negative grade the /-i/ or otherwise the final vowel of the stem changes to o. So for chomolat 'chomo' would be a correct formal imperative, but I don't think that was what you were going for.
--- End quote ---
Actually yes, yes I was going exactly for that.
Qvaak:
--- Quote ---Actually yes, yes I was going exactly for that.
--- End quote ---
Alright. Sorry for not getting it. Why chomolat and not just chomat?
Edit: Ahh! "Me vafik, zhey khaleesi. Dothraki chomoe mae." from the series. How that hasn't made its way to the vocab. Still, I'm not convinced the meaning fits.
...Thinking further about Zhey ave kishi fini vekha she asavva, I wonder if Zhey ave kishi fini vekhi she asavva would work - or be even better. A relative pronoun in a second person sentence seems a bit odd, but it works unproblematically in English (and in Finnish), so why not in Dothraki too.
--- Quote ---khalasar shafki jadi
--- End quote ---
We have a word rhaesh, which is pretty good approximation of kingdom, IMO, but I think I like khalasar better. It's a good culturalization. I'm less sure about jadat. It's a literal translation, but sounds too concrete to me. Especially since khalasars can travel and thus don't need to metaphorically "come". Of course you might think of it literally even in English: the kingdom descending from the heaven, ie. moving here. I've always thought of it more as "to come into being", "to begin to exist". I might go with yolat.
And I'd use that newfound impersonal command thingie even here. So I'd propose
Yolates khalasar shafki.
--- Quote ---dirge shafki ti* she sorfosor ven she asavva "Thy thought be done in earth as in heaven" ?
* somebody knows the full conjugation for tat? (I'm going for formal imperative here)
--- End quote ---
Tat should conjugate regularily save for the past singular, where there's that curious irregular epenthetic e at the beginning. Ti should indeed be the formal imperative. The end of the sentence sounds promising to me, though ven needs to be in front of both arguments. I'd change dirge to athzalar. It's just "hope" in the vocabulary, but as a nominalization of zalat, I think the meaning should be spot on. But all in all I'm not at all sure, how that "thy will be done" might work in dothraki. I'll hazard an uninspired guess:
Tates ki athzalari shafki, ven she sorfosor ven she asavva.
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