Author Topic: Texts for the CNN thing.  (Read 8536 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Texts for the CNN thing.
« on: February 29, 2012, 06:47:09 am »
In this thread we can discuss and help compose the various texts that people are recording for the CNN interview David is going to have.

Daenerys started with the following text in English.

Quote
Greetings Dothraki and Foreigners.  I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite Dothraki phrase from the Game of Thrones series. I am not a native speaker, so you must allow for my Westerosi style, California accent. David Peterson made something incredible. He has created a very real language for a mythical people, and by incorporating culture, as well as grammar, it makes it seem, they actually might have existed….at some time, somewhere, someplace.  His work is amazing! Me nem nessa . My favorite "Game of Thrones" phrase in Dothraki is "Anha vosoon avvos. Anha qoy zhavvorsi," because even if everyone is not blood of the dragon, everyone is someone.  Everyone is special. By the way, I am recruiting blood riders and hand maidens, for those brave enough to volunteer. So let me know. Remember! The stars are charging for you. Hunt well! Be strong!

I think this is a good outline but there are a lot of words we don't have and that are unlikely to exist in pure Dothraki so some changes will probably be needed.

I guess we could take it sentence for sentence and see where we end up. Here are my initial thoughts.

Greetings Dothraki and Foreigners: Here Dany suggested "M’atchomaroon Dothraki! Atchomar chomakaan Ifaki!" I think it feels a little clunky to use separate greetings. What does everyone else think? Perhaps it's better to just say M'athchomaroon zhey Dothraki ma ifaki.

For the next line I would drop the reference to the series since that will probably be hard to translate. I would go with something like "I was asked if I could speak in Dothraki about David Peterson and words in Dothraki I like" That would be something like "Anha nem qaf hash anha laz astok Lekhes Dothraki qisi zhey David Peterson ma ase Dothraki allayafa anna.". If we can get a translation of "favorite phrase" then that would perhaps be even better.

The next sentence I would rewrite as something like "I'm not a true Dothraki so forgive how I speak." My translation of that would be "Anha vos Dothraki tawak [so forgive] os astolataan anni" That last part is a bit uncertain. I copied a construct used in one of the episodes where they expressed "how to fight" with "path towards to fight".

The next part will also be really hard to translate without extensive rewrites. Perhaps you could say something like "David has created a very real and great language. It makes me think that the Dothraki people might exist one place" That would be "Zhey David ray move lekhes sekke tawaka ma vezhvena. Me dirgoe anna meDothraki ish vekhi at gach."

For the next part since we don't have a word for work you could say something like "His creation is amazing" or something like that. The word for creation isn't known but my guess would be that it's movekh i.e. a creation is the result of creating something. So the translation would be something like "Movekh mae adavranaza! Me nem nesa!".

Next is another tricky line. Again if we get a translation for favorite phrase then that is a good option but in lack of that something else is needed. Perhaps "The Dothraki words i really like are: " because not everyone is blood of the dragon but everyone is someone. That would be "Ase Dothraki fini allayafa anna ki "Anha vosoon avvos. Anha qoy zhavvorsi" hajinaan meeyak vos qoy zhavvorsi vosma eyak [someone]. Eyak [special]."

My suggestion for the next part is "I'm seeking out more bloodriders and handmaidens so come with me" which would be "Anha fonok dothrakiqoyies ma khaleessiy ale [so] jadi anni. "

Remember! The stars are charging for you. Hunt well! Be strong! Vineseri! Shieraki gori ha yeraan. Fonas chek! Hajas!

Well, that's my thoughts to begin with at least. I'm sure there are better ways to express these ideas and I'm sure I've made mistakes as well. Feel free to contribute your thoughts.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:49:07 am by ingsve »
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 08:38:41 am »
M'ath

David sent me these two pieces for it:

Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori haji Vilajerosh Adori. = I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite phrase from Game of Thrones.

I don't see the "favorite Dothraki" part.  Would it work to add = ...astezhori Dothraki allayafa anna haji Vilajerosh Adori.?

Anha vo disok ki Dothraki majin yer eth azhas anhaan astolat ki fothakhi che Raeshoon Andahli che Kalifornyoon = I'm not fluent in Dothraki, so you must permit me to speak with a Westerosi or Californian voice.

The reason I use two greeting is, and this is just an interesting question in general, how would you address two groups of people, since the Dothraki use different greetings for foreigners? Another reason is that one minute is longer than you think and I clocked in shy in English. :)

Quote
"Anha vos Dothraki tawak [so forgive] os astolataan anni"
I was wondering about word choice here too when I wrote it. Would a Dothraki say "forgive" or "excuse" or more like "you will tolerate"?

The reason I wrote
Quote
It makes it seem, they actually might have existed…at some time, somewhere, someplace.
is to give the effect of adding those words as if they were an afterthought, versus a tight pre-written sentence, even if it is. :)

I really like your suggestion of using "seeking out":
Quote
"Anha fonok dothrakiqoyies ma khaleessiy ale ... "
, zhey ingsve.


David said he could help us with missing words too.

Looking forward to Qvaak weighing in.

It is really awesome to be working all together on this!


« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 09:49:29 am by Daenerys »

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 09:21:58 am »
M'ath

David did send me these two pieces for it:

Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori haji Vilajerosh Adori. = I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite phrase from Game of Thrones.

Anha vo disok ki Dothraki majin yer eth azhas anhaan astolat ki fothakhi che Raeshoon Andahli che Kalifornyoon = I'm not fluent in Dothraki, so you must permit me to speak with a Westerosi or Californian voice.

The reason I use two greeting is, and this is just an interesting question in general. How would you address two groups of people, since the Dothraki use different greetings for foreigners. Another reason is that one minute is longer than you think and I clocked in shy in English. :)

Quote
"Anha vos Dothraki tawak [so forgive] os astolataan anni"
I was wondering about word choice here too when I wrote it. Would a Dothraki say "forgive" or "excuse" or more like "you will tolerate"?

I really like your suggestion of:
Quote
"Anha fonok dothrakiqoyies ma khaleessiy ale [so] jadi anni. "
, zhey ingsve.

Regarding the "series" or "Game of Thrones"...I thought of translating Game of Thrones as Iron Chair Game, the closest thing I could think of for "series" or "show" would be something like "fake playing life" or such. :) I put it in as I  was asked to chose a favorite phrase from the series, which limited my phrase choice.

David said he could help us with missing words too.

Looking forward to Qvaak weighing in.

It is really awesome to be working all together on this!

Ah, that's good. That means we don't have to be as tied down by the current vocabulary.

Ya, using forgive is perhaps not in line with their culture. That's moot now I guess since David provided a better translation for that part of it.

Just using the name of the show like in Davids example is a good way of getting around referring to it as a series I think. Any word for series wouldn't be "in world" correct anyway so leaving that word out is good.

Hrakkar also said he could probably record a message as well depending on the deadline so hopefully he'll join us here as well to get a text written.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 09:23:59 am by ingsve »
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 09:50:59 am »
zhey ingsve,

I just modified my post. Let me know what you think?

I am looking forward to what Hraakar is going to do! :)

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 10:13:36 am »
zhey ingsve,

I just modified my post. Let me know what you think?

I am looking forward to what Hraakar is going to do! :)

I assumed that astezhori meant "favourite phrase". It would translate as "talk of the heart" or something like that.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 07:22:53 pm »
A couple updates from David. [so] in this case would be majin. and for "come with me" it's better to use jadi m'anhoon. I also got the animacy of dothrakhqoyi wrong for some reason so the accusative should be dothrakhqoy.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 11:08:45 pm »
Just got in. Very cool, ingsve!

The change I referred to was asking if I could modify David's version of my sentence from:
Quote
Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori haji Vilajerosh Adori. = I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite phrase from Game of Thrones.
to: Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori Dothraki allayafa anna haji Vilajerosh Adori.?

So we have: "Anha fonok dothrakiqoy ma khaleessiy ale majin jadi m'anhoon. " :)

We still need words for: favorite, special and someone.

I need to get back to this tomorrow. I'm too exhausted to focus right now.






Qvaak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +29/-0
  • someone
    • View Profile
    • qvaak-dot-kuutikkaat
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 02:26:44 am »
Aight! Trying to jump on to the discussion.

Quote
Greetings Dothraki and Foreigners: Here Dany suggested "M’atchomaroon Dothraki! Atchomar chomakaan Ifaki!" I think it feels a little clunky to use separate greetings. What does everyone else think? Perhaps it's better to just say M'athchomaroon zhey Dothraki ma ifaki.
Quote
The reason I use two greeting is, and this is just an interesting question in general, how would you address two groups of people, since the Dothraki use different greetings for foreigners? Another reason is that one minute is longer than you think and I clocked in shy in English. :)
I think the double greeting sounds cool, though not necessary. As Ingsve, I too would add zheys, and perhaps even conjunctive ma. So: M'athchomaroon zhey Dothraki, ma athchomar chomakea zhey ifaki. It would be kinda cool to go a bit further and use ma...ma double structure, but Ma m'athchomaroon.. sounds slightly funny to me. Too much doubled ma. Also, I'm not entirely sure, if unelided ma athchomar is in good form. I think sentence level conjunctive ma can (or even should?) be left unelided just to make the sentence easier to parse, to differentiate from prepositional ma and prefix /me-/.

There is some honest, unembellished bluntness in Dothraki culture and speech, but I'd imagine they are not usually in modern bustling city haste, even if their communities can be enormous. A bit ponderous double greeting fits well to my picture of Dothraki way of speaking.
On the other hand, I don't think either of the greetings would go badly just by themselves. Addressing people in general and mostly not of your own khalasar would certainly allow for formal athchomar chomakea.

Quote
Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori haji Vilajerosh Adori. = I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite phrase from Game of Thrones.
Quote
Anha vo disok ki Dothraki majin yer eth azhas anhaan astolat ki fothakhi che Raeshoon Andahli che Kalifornyoon = I'm not fluent in Dothraki, so you must permit me to speak with a Westerosi or Californian voice.
Always cool to get new text from David. And cool to notice that even if all the words aren't entirely familiar in the way they are used, every word is at least somewhat understandable.

I'm pretty sure that as Ingsve too suspects, astezhori translates as "my favourite phrase". You could say astezhori anni, but Dothraki tend to drop possessives when they are clearly implied anyway, so plain astezhori is better. We don't have a noun ast or aste, exaclty, but "saying" or "phrase" would be a natural translation. A compound Xzhori for "favourite X" seems natural enough, too, tough of course it's a new word/expression.

Quote
The next part will also be really hard to translate without extensive rewrites. Perhaps you could say something like "David has created a very real and great language. It makes me think that the Dothraki people might exist one place" That would be "Zhey David ray move lekhes sekke tawaka ma vezhvena. Me dirgoe anna meDothraki ish vekhi at gach."
..lekhes ma sekke tawaka ma vezhvena rings better to me, but that's just a nuance thing. ... I think anna was meant to be anni (or I'm reading the syntax wrong [edit: I'm pretty sure I read the syntax wrong. But it does not make sense to me either. Do we even have a word dirgolat?]).
Mainly I think at gach is a very dubious construct. As far as I know we know nothing about how Dothraki would extend the meaning of one. The meaning might be anything: "fit in one place", "exist somewhere", "be at that one special place" ... eshna and esina might be known words that could yield reasonable alternatives.

I'll try to come up my (mostly) own attempt....
Zhey Devid Peterson move vekhikh ma vezhvena ma kima. Me move lekhes sekke tawaka ha vojea ido. Majin kash lekh ee vi osaan atthirari jin voji, kash anha dirgak mevoji ish vekhi.

Quote
For the next part since we don't have a word for work you could say something like "His creation is amazing" or something like that. The word for creation isn't known but my guess would be that it's movekh i.e. a creation is the result of creating something. So the translation would be something like "Movekh mae adavranaza! Me nem nesa!".
Ya. Sounds good.

Quote
Next is another tricky line. Again if we get a translation for favorite phrase then that is a good option but in lack of that something else is needed. Perhaps "The Dothraki words i really like are: " because not everyone is blood of the dragon but everyone is someone. That would be "Ase Dothraki fini allayafa anna ki "Anha vosoon avvos. Anha qoy zhavvorsi" hajinaan meeyak vos qoy zhavvorsi vosma eyak [someone]. Eyak [special]."
Well, we got the "favourite phrase", so perhaps
Anha astak astezhor haji Vilajerosh Adori ki: "Anha vosoon avvos. Anha qoy zhavvorsi," ma me astezhori hajinaan m'eyak vos qoy zhavvorsi, vosma eyak voj. Eyak davrae k'athesinazari.

umm. Almost at the end. I'll try to contribute more, but that should be a start.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 02:42:18 am by Qvaak »
Game of Thrones is not The Song of Ice and Fire, sweetling. You'll learn that one day to your sorrow.

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2012, 03:51:45 am »
Just got in. Very cool, ingsve!

The change I referred to was asking if I could modify David's version of my sentence from:
Quote
Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori haji Vilajerosh Adori. = I was asked to speak to you in Dothraki about David Peterson and my favorite phrase from Game of Thrones.
to: Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori Dothraki allayafa anna haji Vilajerosh Adori.?

So we have: "Anha fonok dothrakiqoy ma khaleessiy ale majin jadi m'anhoon. " :)

We still need words for: favorite, special and someone.

I need to get back to this tomorrow. I'm too exhausted to focus right now.

The thing I tried to point out in the previous post is that the word astezhori probably has the word favorite built into it. The word astezhori literally translates as "talk of the heart" which sounds like it means "favorite phrase" rather than just "phrase". So adding the allayafat part would be redundant. That would be like saying "my favourite phrase that pleases me".
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2012, 04:19:10 am »

Quote
The next part will also be really hard to translate without extensive rewrites. Perhaps you could say something like "David has created a very real and great language. It makes me think that the Dothraki people might exist one place" That would be "Zhey David ray move lekhes sekke tawaka ma vezhvena. Me dirgoe anna meDothraki ish vekhi at gach."
..lekhes ma sekke tawaka ma vezhvena rings better to me, but that's just a nuance thing. ... I think anna was meant to be anni (or I'm reading the syntax wrong [edit: I'm pretty sure I read the syntax wrong. But it does not make sense to me either. Do we even have a word dirgolat?]).
Mainly I think at gach is a very dubious construct. As far as I know we know nothing about how Dothraki would extend the meaning of one. The meaning might be anything: "fit in one place", "exist somewhere", "be at that one special place" ... eshna and esina might be known words that could yield reasonable alternatives.

I'll try to come up my (mostly) own attempt....
Zhey Devid Peterson move vekhikh ma vezhvena ma kima. Me move lekhes sekke tawaka ha vojea ido. Majin kash lekh ee vi osaan atthirari jin voji, kash anha dirgak mevoji ish vekhi.


No, dirgolat doesn't exist and I see now that I did a mistake. What I should have used was addirgat which I was attempting to mean "to make someone think" but I knew that was always going to be a dubious construct.

I think your attempt is great so we can just use that and forget about my dubious constructs.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 04:23:46 am by ingsve »
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2012, 11:03:33 am »
Just read everything again!

I see what you are saying about astezhori . If I want to say Dothraki phrase...can I say it like this?Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori Dothraki haji Vilajerosh Adori.  ?

For:
Quote
Zhey Devidi Peterson move vekhikh ma vezhvena ma kima. Me move lekhes sekke tawaka ha vojea ido. Majin kash lekh ee vi osaan atthirari jin voji, kash anha dirgak mevoji ish vekhi.
Could vojea ido be: vojea thirat atthiraride (not sure of the morphology here)? Is the use of
Quote
atthirari jin..
used in the sense of imagination?

I also thought we don't use zhey unless directly speaking to someone?

Hopefully almost done! :) Then comes the rest...





ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 12:53:33 pm »
Just read everything again!

I see what you are saying about astezhori . If I want to say Dothraki phrase...can I say it like this?Anha rayim qaf astolat yerea ki Dothraki Devidi Peterson ma astezhori Dothraki haji Vilajerosh Adori.  ?

Yes, that works.

For:
Quote
Zhey Devidi Peterson move vekhikh ma vezhvena ma kima. Me move lekhes sekke tawaka ha vojea ido. Majin kash lekh ee vi osaan atthirari jin voji, kash anha dirgak mevoji ish vekhi.
Could vojea ido be: vojea thirat atthiraride (not sure of the morphology here)? Is the use of
Quote
atthirari jin..
used in the sense of imagination?

Well, I guess you could use something like "dream people" rather than "fake people" though that would require a different wording. My guess would be something like "vojea athiraridi".

No, the "osaan athirari jin voji" means something like "way of life of this people" which is meant as a translation of "culture".

I also thought we don't use zhey unless directly speaking to someone?

Hopefully almost done! :) Then comes the rest...

It's mainly used when addressing someone and a greeting is an address. Though I think David at some point also mentioned that you use it pretty much whenever you name someone as well  but I'm not sure on the confines of that use.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly

Hrakkar

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 446
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Dothraki Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 01:50:24 pm »
I didn't have time to take a real close look at this, this lunch hour. In talking to David by email, he said that the important thing fir this is just to be speaking in Dothraki. So, I plan to string some phrases together that don't necessarily have a coherent meaning has a whole (but mean something individually). Or, should I take a closer look at Daenery's text and work from there? Or do you want to suggest something that I should try and speak. I have a videographer lined up for Saturday afternoon or evening to tape something.

And what file format and compression rate do you want it in? I can do uncompressed HD and on down.
Don't tell Khal Drogo I am here ;)

Daenerys

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Khaleesi
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 06:23:42 pm »
Hi Hrakkar!

The video, I was told can be taken with a smartphone or flip phone...something like you would put up and could on Youtube. I needs on a video phone to be taken longwise and for format, one that is playable in QuickTime.

The topic was picked for me. But, maybe you could do a cool warrior speech! We probably have more vocabulary for that. Our should be different and in that case, it could showcase various aspects! :)

I am so happy you are doing this too, zhey Hraakar! :)

ingsve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 578
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Student of the stars
    • View Profile
Re: Texts for the CNN thing.
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 08:30:02 pm »
I didn't have time to take a real close look at this, this lunch hour. In talking to David by email, he said that the important thing fir this is just to be speaking in Dothraki. So, I plan to string some phrases together that don't necessarily have a coherent meaning has a whole (but mean something individually). Or, should I take a closer look at Daenery's text and work from there? Or do you want to suggest something that I should try and speak. I have a videographer lined up for Saturday afternoon or evening to tape something.

And what file format and compression rate do you want it in? I can do uncompressed HD and on down.

I think that if you just choose some various phrases from what we already have then that is probably more than enough since there is limited time if you are recording on Saturday. We have all the season 1 dialogue to choose from but also things that have come up on the blog like the haikus or house words etc.
"I just need to rest, that’s all, to rest and sleep some, and maybe die a little" – Samwell Tarly