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Messages - HoeriVezhof

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Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: December 11, 2016, 03:51:02 pm »
Haha, yup! I'm pretty sure I put more work into this project the last two days than I did the previous two months! One thing's for sure, though: I don't plan on waking up before noon or sleeping before 2:00am for the next week or so and dedicating my free time to this project, my conlang, 3% on Netflix, and maybe finally getting to the A Song of Ice and Fire books ;D

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: What in the world is going on
« on: December 11, 2016, 03:37:39 pm »
Hey was their an update or change in the language? Something screwy is happening to me.

I've always, always been under the impression that when you use the genitive, the possessor and the possessee are put in the genitive case:

However, I looked back at the syntax page of the wiki and every example of a possessive only has the possessor in the genitive:

All of my notes say that the genitive encompasses both, and I took my notes straight from the wiki, but suddenly all of that is changed. Am I completely batshit!? Have I been wrong this whole time!?
This is like the Berenstain Bears all over again...


It has always been my understanding that only the possessor takes the genitive or ablative, the possessed being in whatever case required of it by the sentence. Living Language: Dothraki gives these examples:

Anha Dothrak she khalasaroon Khali Fogo.  (pg. 107)
I am from the Khalasar of Khal Fogo.

Interesting that only Khal is marked, though. Does that mean names are not typically marked or only the first word in a noun phrase are marked just as only the last word of a noun phrase is marked in English? cf. Latin Legiones principis Augusti - legions[nom. pl.] emperor[gen.] Augustus[gen.]. Here both princeps and Augustus must be in the genitive.

Other examples from the exercises (pg. 115, 119) include:

arakh lajaki - the warrior's arakh
jahak neaka khaloon - the khal's long braid
vov anni - my weapon
eveth ashefasoon - water of/from the river
nharesi awazakoa - the screamers' heads

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: December 11, 2016, 06:38:00 am »

Finals are over for me and winter break is here at last! That means two-ish months of free time to translate! I already did some serious work this Friday and Saturday to celebrate.

Dothraki Bible:
      I added a last updated date to the top and edited by in the header. I also made a lot of minor edits and few major edits, more below.

Timvir Vichomer Vojjori: I added a title page with translation by, edited by, and last updated date. I will also add any contributers and fellow translators here in the future.

Bible Vocabulary: A list of words I made up and words I need for tranlating. Read more about it on the main post.

Hebrew Names: A list of names of people, places, and things in the Bible I transliterated from Biblical Hebrew. Read more about it on the main post.

Aside from translating Genesis 3 & 4, I also went back and made some minor corrections to Gen. 1& 2 and found a system for documenting any newly derived words, any words lacking in the Dothraki lexicon for translation, and highlighting any issues in translation. Normally I would post any edits made to the text and their citation directly to the forum, but since I had to go back and make changes to two full chapters, the list got rather long and I decided to just attach it as a doc. Most (but not all) of the changes were minor and systematic, so you're probably best off ignoring it and just using the updated doc with all the changes made; but just in case anyone wants the list, here it is. I promise the list of edits won't be so long in future posts!

Dothraki Language Updates / Re: Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: December 05, 2016, 12:22:27 am »
All downloaded and ready to go! Btw which owl is that? I have the esperanto one  ;D

Awesome! The red one is a Roman owl with SPQR on it for Latin. I made it myself! Latin was the first foreign language I seriously started learning (technically the first was high school french, but I wasn't as invested in the language then and very little stuck). Lingua Latina est mater novercaque mearum linguarum nativarum et igitur est meus tertius amor post linguam hispanicam linguamque anglicam. - Latin is the mother and adoptive mother of my native languages and is therefore my third love after Spanish and English.

Dothraki Language Updates / Dothraki Bible Translation
« on: December 02, 2016, 12:33:09 pm »
M'ath, eyak! [Last Updated: 02/20/2016]

I started this translation project a couple of months ago as a practice exercise to better my understanding of the Dothraki language. This was a continuation of my translation of the lord's prayer into Dothraki, and I thought it a good choice, as the lack of modern technological vocabulary in the text and that the ancient Hebrews started out as a nomadic people (albeit not horse-riding ones), would make a good text for translation into Dothraki. I'm posting it here in case anyone is interested in contributing to it, in providing  corrections and/suggestions, or simply having a look. I've provided my sources various documents explained below:

My main source is the Newly Revised Standard Version translation of the Bible (the best English translation in my opinion). I am using a Hebrew interlinear Bible to try and create a translation as close to the original in essence as possible and the Latin Vulgate translation as a third point of comparison. All of which I will link bellow.;VULGATE

Dothraki Bible: The document where I do the translations, it is split into four columns:
            1st column: the verse number of each row
            2nd column: the Newly Revised Standard Version in English
            3rd column: the Dothraki translation
            4rd colum: an English gloss of the Dothraki text

            Yellow: new word derived from other word(s) and derivational affix(es)
            Green: uncertain grammatical construction or vocabulary usage
            Red: lack of proper grammatical construction or vocabulary

Timvir Vichomer Vojjori: This is the Dothraki-only text with the same highlights as the comparative text.

Bible Vocabulary: A list of words in three different sheets:
            Sheet 1- Derived: Words I derived from other Dothraki words with their definition, derivation, and citations
            Sheet 2 - Missing: Words missing in the Dothraki lexicon that the text requires with their citations
            Sheet 3 - Grammar: List o certain grammatical constructions lacking in my understanding of Dothraki, my guess, and their citations

Hebrew Names: The Dothraki translation derives the names of people and place from Biblical Hebrew, not English. e.g. Eve in not Eve or Eva, but Hawwah from Biblical Hebrew חַוָּה - ħawwāh. I have also provided more English-looking forms here for those who prefer them. the document contains 4 different sheets:
            Sheet 1 - Phones: the corresponding phonemes of Hebrew and Dothraki
                  Column A: hebrew letter
                  Column B: IPA symbol(s)
                  Column C: Corresponding Dothraki phoneme(s)
            Sheet 2 - Names: Names of People in the Bible
                  Column A: English name
                  Column B: Biblical Hebrew name
                  Column C: Transliteration of Biblical Hebrew name
                  Column D: Dothraki name derived from Hebrew name
                  Column E: Dothraki name derived from English and/or Latin name
                  Column F: Meaning, etymology, or folk etymology if any of Hebrew name
            Sheet 3 - Places: Names of places named in the Bible; columns same as sheet 2
            Sheet 4 - Misc.: Any other names or words for things listed in the Bible; columns same as sheet 2

My main goal is to translate Genesis and maybe Exodus; beyond that we'll have to see. I only work on it sporadically, line-by-line when I have time, so progress may be inconsistent; still, I'll try to update the texts with any additions, corrections, or alterations weekly on Saturday or Sunday, with a short post on what edits where made.

Hajas! Vatterates yeri vezorat lekhes Dothraki ma allayafates me yeri sekke!

Introductions / Re: M'ath!
« on: September 02, 2016, 02:17:30 am »
M'athchomaroon, Zhey Chomosor! Me allayafa anna meshafka iddee anna. Anha zalak mekisha ashiloki akka ma mevezoki lekhes Dothraki niyanqoy.

General Discussion / Re: The Lords Prayer thread
« on: September 02, 2016, 01:29:32 am »

Terrific idea taking latin and greek roots to create new Dothraki loan words in order to properly translate the prayer.

Thank you for the compliments! Just to clarify, though, I didn't use Greek and Latin roots, but used the Greek and Latin versions of the Lord's Prayer as the bases of my translation (especially the Greek, since that is language that the prayer was first written in). I tried as hard as possible to use Dothraki words and derive them naturally when needed.

Personally, if I am to borrow words instead of just mashing pre-existing dothraki words together, I take loan words from Swahili to complete my translations. P's become F's, B's become V's, U's become either O's or Oo's, and Dh's become Kh's. Simple. The phonology and structure more or less match up, and the cultures in which Swahili is descended from more or less match with that of the Dothraki. However since this is a script with European origin, it makes sense to use the languages that founded European civilization.
That's really cool! I must admit I don't know much about Swahili, though I hope the duolingo course will be finished soon, as I'd love to start learning a non-Indo-European and from what I've read off the wikipedia page so far, it seems like a really cool language. I think if I were to borrow words into Dothraki they would be first from Valyrian (of course), and second from arabic seeing as it was David Peterson's phonological inspiration. Also now that I think about it, the  indo-europeans were nomadic tribesmen who primarily rode on horseback, so it might be interesting to note how they derived their words for more agrarian-based concepts, tools, and institutions and compare the two.

I would like to contact you in the near future. I would enjoy the practice, especially since it's been a while from last I touched up my grammar.  :)
That sounds great! I'll warn I'm just learning, though; it's much easier to translate something with a dictionary and reference at hand to fix any mistakes than to come up with sentences on the spot for me, but for that reason I'd be great to practice with someone else! Just message me to exchange contact info.
I agree with Choyosor, very creative! I'm going to pass this on to David, who will also likely be impressed!
Wow, thank you! Credit should also go to everyone who posted here before, as I built off much of my translation off what you guys had already worked out. I'd also like to add one little thing with is that I only just noticed the verb annithilat with one of its meanings being to entice and so think athannithizar or maybe even athvirannithisezar would be a better and more Dothraki-based word for temptation than Greek-inspired athvirittesezar. It's been bothering me since I found the word in the vocabulary and just wanted to mention it.

General Discussion / Re: The Lords Prayer thread
« on: August 30, 2016, 02:26:33 am »
After reading through this thread and seeing what you guys had so far, I decided to take a crack at translating this as well, based largely on the work you guys have done, but also looking at the original Greek text and the Latin version for comparison. Below is my translation and my justification for certain word choices. Please correct any grammar or vocabulary mistakes and suggest any alternative translations. Below my translation is my justifications for some of the translation choices I made.

1 Zhey ave kishi fin dothrae she asavva,
Oh father of ours who rides in the sky
2 vichomerates hake shafki,
may your name be respectable
3 jadates khalasar shafki,
may your horde come
4 vekholates/melisolates athzalar shafki,
may your hope(will) come to be/happen
5 ven she asavva akkate she sorfosor.
as in heaven also on earth
6 Azhas kishaan hadaenasshekhan asshekh;
give us today our bread intended for today;
7 m'azhas kishoa nemo echomosalat haji athfatizaroon,
and let us dishonor ourselves for our insolence
8 akkate kisha azhaki moroa rekaki fatie kisha nemo echomosalat;
as we let those who insult us dishonor themselves
9 ma vos idros kisha mr'athzirannithisezaraan,
and guide us not into temptation
10 vosma vijazeros kisha h'athmelaroon.
but rescue us from evil
11 hajinaan memra qora ma khalasar, m'athhajar, ma chomokh,
for you have in hand the kingdom, and the strength, and the honor,
12 ajjin m'ayyey
now and always
13 amen/sekosshi (me nem nesa).
amen/certainly (it is known)

1. I thought dothralat compliments the translation of khalasar for kingdom, as the Dothraki would likely see God as the Khalof, so it makes sense that he would be riding up in the heavens with his khalasar, perhaps atop Vezhof, who has been "tamed" by the new god and made his stead as a way of integrating the religion and transitioning from the old god to the new.

3. Jadat best matches both the original Greek and Latin versions of the prayers, which use ἔρχομαι and veniō. Both mean to come in a physical sense rather than to become or to come into being, which would be γίγνομαι and fīo. On top of that, jadat compliments lines 1 and 3, paints a great mental image of God descending from heaven with his khalasar behind him, and, as Najahho said, creates a better cultural connection.

4. either Vekholat or melisolat work well here, I think,  since both Greek and Latin use γίγνομαι and fīo here (let thy will/desire come into being, happen, take place).

5. As previously stated, there are different ways to translate this comparison. Greek and Latin use ὡς...καί and sicut…et both translated as so, as, just as, as…and, even, also. I personally like ven…akkate (like…the same way).

6-10. I According to David Peterson in Living Language Dothraki, "the informal imperative is used for requests while the formal imperative is used for commands." Which we use I think depends on how the Dothraki speak to their khal. Would you ever use the formal imperative -- that is, demand something of/from your khal -- or would you always use the informal imperative -- that is, request something from him? My thinking is it would be the latter, and that's why I went with the informal imperative.

6. Without getting into what the heck ἐπιούσον was supposed to mean in the original Greek (seriously, look it up, no one knows for sure since it only occurs this one time in the entire corpus of Koine Greek!), I chose to translate daily bread as hadaenasshekhan using the noun-noun allative compound, thus "food intended for the day" (I originally had havonasshekhan, but Qvaak convinced me that hadaen would be more culturally appropriate than havon).

*7-8. These lines were by far the hardest to translate. Firstly, I don't know if my grammar is correct here. Second, I used nemo echomosalat for to forgive (lit. I dishonor myself) based on the example sentence under its entry in the vocabulary page (which doesn't appear to be properly conjugated there and doesn't list it as a possible definition in the main entry which makes me a bit weary of using it this way). Lastly, I choose to use the word fatilat and form from it athfatizar (insolence) based off one Spanish version of the prayer that says:

"perdona nuestras ofensas, como también nosotros perdonamos a los que nos ofenden."
"Forgive our offenses, as we also forgive those who offend us."

So to offend = fatilat and offense, insolence = athfatizar (as opposed to fatikh, which would be insult based on elzat-elzikh).

*9. Translating temptation was also a challenge. I decided to take ittelat and add the pejorative to form ziritteselat = to tempt, and then nominalized it, so athzirittesezar = temptation. I can see this word being formed many different ways, and admittedly I based my derivation off of Greek and Latin, which both derive their words for temptation from πειράζω and temptō meaning to try, test, tempt.

10. vijazerolat I think works well since the word in Greek here is ῥύομαι, which does mean to set free but also to protect, guard; rescue, save. Latin uses līberō, which has the meaning to free, release; so asserilat seems like a reasonable alternative to me. I also nominalized mel to form athmelar = evil, wickedness.

11. Okay, I lied, THIS was the hardest line to translate. I don't know if Dothraki has a construction similar to english yours is…, so I went with mra qora. Khalasar = kingdom was easy, but power and glory were not. Greek δύναμις has the meaning of power as in might, strength, but also authority, dominion, legal power; latin potestās doesn't translate to power as in strength, might, but to authority, dominions, political power. It makes sense to me that the Dothraki would conflate physical strength with political power, though, so I chose to translate it as athhajar. Greek δόξα can mean glory, honor, but also opinion, judgement, belief; while Latin glōria can mean glory, honor, fame. I chose chomokh because it matched up with both the Greek and Latin, but glory is one of those fuzzy words whose meaning I just can't quite grasp, especially not in a religious contexts; so again, I can see many other possible translations for these words.

*12. I considered two possible translations for this line: kashineak, a noun-adjective compound of kashin and neak (so mra kashineakaan, "into the long time," i.e. eternity), or the phrase evoon nakhaan ("from the beginning to the end"). I personally prefer the latter. Again, though, I can see many ways of translating this.

13. The original amen (Hebrew "truly, certainly") can be kept here, or we could translate it into Dothraki as sekosshi, or even sekosshi me nem nesa!

-fixed lines 7 & 8 which were, as I suspected, grammatically incorrect.
-replaced athzirittesezar of line 9 with athzirannithisezar based off of a pejorative nominalization of annithilat, meaning to entice.
- changed line 12 to ajjin m'ayyey because it simpler, sounds better, and still gets the same idea across.

Introductions / M'ath!
« on: August 29, 2016, 11:35:21 pm »

My name is Jose. While I bought my copy of Living Language Dothraki a while ago, it wasn't until I came across this thread:
That I really got into Dothraki. While I'm not a religious person by any means, as Qvaak said, the Lord's Prayer is one of the most widely translated texts and is what I often use to get a feel for a language. After reading through the thread, reading through LLD and the grammar and vocabulary sections of the site, I decided to take a crack at it (I'll post my attempt under the thread shortly). Thus far I've really been enjoying learning the language and hope to continue learning with the help of those here wiser and more experienced in the language than me.

Anha zalak m'anha ashilok yeri ma mekishi vastoki qisi.

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